Seems Like Donald Trump Jr admitted to looking for Russian Info
- Thread starter cernjSHU
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Exactly. Russia is not an enemy. In fact, I believe we should be strengthening ties with Russia. I always go back to this: Why would we want to be at odds with the only country on earth that could destroy us with the push of a button, so to speak?
I liked Obama for the most part (voted for him twice), but he severely damaged our relationship with Russia. That's not a good thing.
Your overall position on the NYT is well established. My comment was the Times seems to have done a good job piecing this story together. Would you agree?
First let's clarify things for you and SPK. Treason and being a traitor are not equivalent terms. You can be a traitor without engaging in treason. I.e The FBI agent who sold secret documents to the Russians. He did not commit treason. But was indeed a traitor. Convicted for violating the espionage act.
For SPK, I guess you consider Russia a friendly government? Not an enemy? When did this happen? Putin has proved himself to be an enemy of this country you want to give a line out of a debate as proof that Russia is not an enemy. When in fact Obama was making a point that terrorism is more of a threat than Russia. Not that Russia was our friend and it a threat. Moreover, Obama learned that Russia, meaning Outin, was still a major threat to our country. At this point in time, there is no doubt of that.
Nothing unhinged just talking facts.
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Yeah unfortunately he didn't have security and intelligence committees capable of preventing Russia from trying to get involved with our election. He dropped the ball. If our security measures and intelligence committees were greater than the Russians this wouldn't have even happened. The Cold War is over, but just like we pushed each other to advance in so many areas during that time, the Russians are ahead in many areas we need to catch up on. The Russians being ahead started well before the election even happened.
Well he's not a traitor either, but carry on with your "facts".
traitor
[trey-ter]
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2.
a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/traitor?s=t
Trump hasn't met either definition, but the context of this conversation would lead me to believe you were talking about definition #2.
[trey-ter]
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2.
a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/traitor?s=t
Trump hasn't met either definition, but the context of this conversation would lead me to believe you were talking about definition #2.
http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1908879_1906461,00.html
The First Family walks through the Kremlin.
The Presidents speak during a photo op before their bilateral meeting.
Obama speaks with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, right, during their meeting at the Novo-Ogaryovo residence outside Moscow.
Putin, right, has a breakfast meeting with Obama.
First Lady Michelle Obama poses for a picture during her visit to St. Dmitriy Nursing College of Sisters of Mercy in Moscow.
The Obamas greet graduates and audience members after the U.S. President's commencement speech at the National Economic School in Moscow.
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No, have they talked about this attorney's ties to the DNC, about the pictures out there of her attending Congressional hearings in the front row with Obama officials?
The NY Times is as trashy and as much a fake news site as any out there.
Without getting into the pissing match of the politics, Russia just did something to us that they should be reprimanded for, no? We agree on that? We can agree that they orchestrated a cyber attack on our country or no?
So... What exactly has been our response as a country? Trump's desire to move forward and forget while saying it may've not been them (according to Putin last week)? Obama took away their resorts? LOL!
They're all clowns to varying degrees. Obama, Clinton, Trump, whomever. Trying to prove false equivalences between them just leads to more nonsense.
Although it's going to get pretty wild if all of this does connect back based upon proven facts that Trump's insiders were being fed intel from the Russian government. Could erupt into a larger circus than Watergate, even if the outcome isn't the same. Based on the established relationships between Trump peeps and the Russians, the common enemy of HRC, and already growing volume of highly suspect personal meetings from multiple top people, I'd be pleasantly surprised if there weren't any facts to prove it.
Remember Trump's big cliffhanger of a presser in June, 2016 announcing that he was going to have a "big speech" on all the Clintons' transgressions the following week? Well that was right before Jr.'s scheduled meeting, which was scheduled for that weekend.
So... What exactly has been our response as a country? Trump's desire to move forward and forget while saying it may've not been them (according to Putin last week)? Obama took away their resorts? LOL!
They're all clowns to varying degrees. Obama, Clinton, Trump, whomever. Trying to prove false equivalences between them just leads to more nonsense.
Although it's going to get pretty wild if all of this does connect back based upon proven facts that Trump's insiders were being fed intel from the Russian government. Could erupt into a larger circus than Watergate, even if the outcome isn't the same. Based on the established relationships between Trump peeps and the Russians, the common enemy of HRC, and already growing volume of highly suspect personal meetings from multiple top people, I'd be pleasantly surprised if there weren't any facts to prove it.
Remember Trump's big cliffhanger of a presser in June, 2016 announcing that he was going to have a "big speech" on all the Clintons' transgressions the following week? Well that was right before Jr.'s scheduled meeting, which was scheduled for that weekend.
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So that's where you're going with this? Veselnitskaya is a DNC operative who was trying to entrap the Trump campaign into colluding with the Russians so they could release the details of this meeting in July 2017?
She attended a congressional hearing about Russian sanctions... and sat next to the Russian ambassador. Good lord, where do you get your news?
June 7th, 2016:
5pm: Don Jr agrees to meeting.
That night after a primary Trump announced that he would give a "big speech" about HRC on June 13th.
June 9th, 2016:
Don Jr, Manafort and Kushner met with the lawyer.
June 13th, 2016:
That HRC speech never happened.
Don Jr. already said that he didn't tell Trump. Wonder if Manafort or Kushner told Trump? Sure seemed like Ole Donny Boy was "in the loop"...
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Without a doubt they're all clowns. Trump needs a better response and I think the best response would be a better healthcare bill, tax reform, and cutting the fat of what we are wasting government funds on. But we can't ignore this happened. 3 or 4 government agencies said Russia was involved with our election. None of the agencies said it effected one vote. But the fact it happened is unacceptable. People need to look into how did our intelligence fail to stop it. Who was in charge when it happened? How did it happen? Who should have stopped it? And why didn't they? And the most important question, how do we prevent these things from happening ever again?
Agree totally, SHUHoopsFan.
Despite my better judgement of watching Trump in action for decades, after he won, I was hoping he'd come in and get busy. Was rooting for it after I saw the absolute ridiculous hyberbole of the ultra-left regarding the tears and fears following Election Night. Complete meltdown.
Thought maybe some shake up would be good. Wrong! It may end up being worse.
Despite my better judgement of watching Trump in action for decades, after he won, I was hoping he'd come in and get busy. Was rooting for it after I saw the absolute ridiculous hyberbole of the ultra-left regarding the tears and fears following Election Night. Complete meltdown.
Thought maybe some shake up would be good. Wrong! It may end up being worse.
They have to get to work. Congressmen and congresswomen need to stop talking about this issue. Appoint a committee. Congress needs to focus on making laws. Have that committee search the Obama regime how they didn't prevent a foreign government from getting involved in our election. Search the Trump regime, who knew what, when did they know, etc. But get the 3 branches of government to do their own respective jobs while the committee searches.
By that límited definition subsection 2 does not apply to the FBI agent who sold secrets to the Russians. So are you saying that the FBI agent is not a traitor? Someone who betrays the country, whether treason was committed or not, is a traitor.
Exactly...it's like this has given Congress a free pass to avoid doing their real job.
This was in response to the NY Times specifically and the job they are doing on this story, it's incomplete without all the supposed facts.
How is sitting next to the Russian ambassador at a hearing about Russian sanctions relevant to this story?
The story is Don Jr, not who he met with.
At a minimum, there was an attempt to collude with a foreign government.
If they walked into the room and Debbie Wasserman Shultz was there herself, saying "Gotcha" the fact would remain that Trump Jr, Manafort and Kushner walked into a meeting with a Russian official who was promising damaging info on Hillary - which is against the law.
We know they tried to collude, we don't know if they succeeded.
Trump and all his minions lied time after time saying there were no meetings with Russians. If these were innocent meetings, why the lies? There were not only meetings with various Russian officials on multiple occasions, now we know that the People closest to Trump were actively looking for information from the Russian government. So we know that the Russians and the Trump campaign had an agreement that they wanted Russian information on Hillary Clinton. That is collusion. Now, the next step is to find evidence that did the Russians want anything in return for this information? I.e. Lifting of sanctions.
Moreover, did the Trump know that the Russians would hack into the DNC or do other criminal acts in order to get this information? Hard to believe that they didn't know this. They were actively engaging the Russians for information. Therefore, at best they turned a blind eye to the information that was provided to Wikileaks by the Russians.
But what will get Trump in the end is the firing of Comey in order to stop the Russian investigation. All this evidence will further strengthen the Obstruction charge.
There's so much smoke in the air nobody can see the real problems and there are a lot of problems. Here are a few.
1. Our security was not strong enough. That's a failure on the Obama administration for not having things up to par.
2. There was an attempt to at least hear out information from someone from Russia.
3. The DNC colluded against Sanders (it doesn't matter if the Russians discovered it, there's truth to it. Maybe if our security was better they wouldn't have found it, but regardless it needs to be fixed)
4. Our media is so biased that these people are not journalists, they are publicists, exaggerating their side. This is the 50th thing they brought up against Trump and the 1st one to really stick.
5. Healthcare
This is the biggest issue in political discourse today. Cable news, twitter, facebook, etc have ruined civil, fact-based discussion. Everyone now feels the need to opine on everything based on click-bait headlines and consume information from only those they agree with.
Blaming Obama is a little absurd. We can not possibly prevent things that are unknown to us. What exactly does "up to par" mean to you? You have no idea what we saw, what we knew etc...
Which is illegal
Which is not illegal - Shady as F... and I am not happy it happened. Donna Brazille was fired and Wasserman lost her post. That's good.
I don't disagree that the media is adding fuel to the fire... but they aren't just throwing shit against a wall. Trump himself makes this a million times worse with his twitter tantrums.
What about it? Republicans said they were doing to repeal it for the last 7 years and have never been able to come up with a plan that could pass. We all know its a problem. None one is preventing something getting done on healthcare.
That is as absurd as saying we didn't know Louisville plays zone, all we saw is them playing man to man. If you are in charge and running election, you don't prepare for other governments trying to get involved and influence it? That is a sign of being unqualified to lead. You don't lead from behind. People blame Willard for losses because he is in charge. This all happened under Obama's watch. He was running the country. His people were in charge of security at the time.
From everything out there, we have no proof she was a foreign national. I don't believe that is illegal.
Do you really believe journalists are strictly reporting facts and not throwing out speculation? Maybe the NYT's has something on this story, but how many retractions have they been forced to run?
Both sides are terrible. Why aren't they coming together to work for people? Why aren't they addressing unhealthy foods? When are they going to care about my health and your health more than the lobbyists? To point out one side on this issue is pure ignorance.
Cyber warfare is a fact of life. It was going on before 2008 and will continue for the foreseeable future. The pace of technology is growing far faster than the public sector can fund and/or implement.To point out one side on this issue is pure ignorance.
Of course cyber warfare was going on before 2008. The point is we need to clean it up. Blame Bush in 2008 for not protecting us from having things stolen from democrats and republicans from the Chinese.
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You say that like we did nothing. You have no idea what we knew, what we did etc. Our government told us it was happening, the public just didn't want to believe it or didn't care.
Ummmm.... seriously? 2 things.
A foreign national is literally a person from another country...
AND Don Jr was told that the info was coming from Russia.They literally told him to attend a meeting to receive something illegal and he went. There is no excuse for that.
The democrats did something. They passed the ACA. You may not agree with it which is fine, but that is what they did. Republicans did nothing but say they would repeal and replace it for 7 years but never had a plan.
Today a group of democrats actually put out a plan about ways to fix Obamacare. hhttp://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/341616-ten-house-democrats-propose-plan-to-fix-obamacare
Republicans have majorities in congress and senate and Trump is President but they can't pass a bill they have been promising for 7 years. Sorry. I am pointing to 1 side because they are the ones in power and have the ability to pass a bill without any democratic support... The only ones preventing them from passing something are other republicans. If they had come up with a bill years ago and pitched it as their promise, it would be law by now.
I am more interested in fixing the problem than assigning the blame. If a nuclear power plant computer is hacked, or if a computer at an electrical grid is hacked, or if the IRS server is hacked, or if a state voter registration data base is hacked, I don't rush to blame President Bush, President Obama or President Trump.
I agree with you.
But will these networks (and they are networks/media companies first before journalism) get enough ratings based on wonkish policy debate? They seem to need the casual people that tune in during Presidential Elections, major news stories, and so forth.
They get more eyeballs with the dramatic intrigue of Trump-Russia than anything.
I didn't suggest making out with the old Gray Hag, merely acknowledge the work that was done. A true Libertarian should be able to do that.
A true libertarian would never acknowledge or approve anything from a partisan, big-government hack like the NY Times.
LOL, if you say so.
Your inability to acknowledge anything from the NYT doesn't make you a true libertarian. It makes you obstinate
On this note, here is a quote from the president this week:
Q Do you think you'll invite Putin to the White House?
THE PRESIDENT: I would say yes, yeah. At the right time. I don't think this is the right time, but the answer is yes I would. Look, it's very easy for me to say absolutely, I won't. That's the easy thing for me to do, but that's the stupid thing to do. Let's be the smart people not the stupid people. The easiest thing for me to tell you is that I would never invite him. We will never ever talk to Russia. That all of my friends in Congress will say, oh he's so wonderful, he's so wonderful. Folks, we have perhaps the second most powerful nuclear country in the world. If you don't have dialogue, you have to be fools. Fools. It would be the easiest thing for me to say to Maggie and all of you, I will never speak to him, and everybody would love me. But I have to do what's right.
Russia really isn't our friend either. I believe we should always engage with our friends and our enemies. The President has a number of isolationist views that I do not agree with. I would support his meeting with Putin.
That being said, I want no part of his cyber partnership, which I think is dangerous and not in our best interest.
That being said, I want no part of his cyber partnership, which I think is dangerous and not in our best interest.
Agree. We shouldn't look at other countries as friends or enemies, but rather understand our priorities and work with each to accomplish them.
