So no one here has voted for or is going to vote for the treasonous coup-attempting felon rapist guy, right?

[chickenbox]

I know folks like to bicker back and forth here and all. And differ on matters of policy.

But I also know there are a lot of conservatives, republicans, and self-identified independents who presumably love the Constitution, representative democracy, and the rule of law. And surely none of them would vote for a demonstrated enemy of all those things. Because that would be debasing and shameful.

Cool.

 

[HALL85]

I know folks like to bicker back and forth here and all. And differ on matters of policy.

But I also know there are a lot of conservatives, republicans, and self-identified independents who presumably love the Constitution, representative democracy, and the rule of law. And surely none of them would vote for a demonstrated enemy of all those things. Because that would be debasing and shameful.

Cool.

Judging by the time stamp and nature of the post I’m going to guess alcohol was involved.

Maybe the question should be, what is wrong with our system and political leadership whereby Trump and Harris are the two candidates?

 

[STLPirate12]

Judging by the time stamp and nature of the post I’m going to guess alcohol was involved.

Maybe the question should be, what is wrong with our system and political leadership whereby Trump and Harris are the two candidates?

That's an easy enough answer - The tribalism of the 2 party system has eroded people's ability to think rationally and pushed both parties to extremes. It's no longer about working together to effectively govern the country, it's just about winning to satisfy a carnal desire for power. It's all vanity and ego feeding.

The most competent, rational people tend to lean more centrist in their views, but centrist views are "boring" so they don't excite the masses to get out and vote the way the extreme candidates do. These people also tend to be smart enough to realize they can make better/more comfortable/safe and out of the spotlight lives for themselves and their families in just about any line of work other than politics.

And then the last piece falls to media - once again, centrist views are boring. The extreme political views generate more clicks and media views, which makes the media companies more money so naturally they commit more time to these candidates, which pushes them and their views even further into the spotlight and causes their ideas to further dominate the conversation. They also tend to draw more emotional reactions from people which had further fed the vicious cycle that's gotten us to where we are now.

 

[HALL85]

Yes, the answer might be easy, but those in power with money (politicians, MSM, wealthy that are using the system , etc.) continue to manipulate the masses.

We can debate his popularity, but IMO there is a large segment of the population that still see Trump as an outsider and a chance for the system to change. They see that group of stakeholders of the current system as not caring about them.

Until we address this, we will continue to have elections like this.

 

[Merge]

Judging by the time stamp and nature of the post I’m going to guess alcohol was involved.

Maybe the question should be, what is wrong with our system and political leadership whereby Trump and Harris are the two candidates?

We’re here because the cult members didn’t budge in their support of Trump while there were better, actual conservatives running and the Democrats wanted to avoid a primary so Harris would not be challenged.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

How can one explain the keynote speaker to the 1996 rnc and the husband who was perhaps the most conservative member of the house in the 90s voting for Harris? Are they both rinos?

 

[HALL85]

We’re here because the cult members didn’t budge in their support of Trump while there were better, actual conservatives running and the Democrats wanted to avoid a primary so Harris would not be challenged.

“Cult members”…why don’t you just call them garbage?

I’m not defending them but maybe they saw those other options as the same old.

You’re right in that party leadership on both sides have failed miserably.

 

[STLPirate12]

Yes, the answer might be easy, but those in power with money (politicians, MSM, wealthy that are using the system , etc.) continue to manipulate the masses.

We can debate his popularity, but IMO there is a large segment of the population that still see Trump as an outsider and a chance for the system to change. They see that group of stakeholders of the current system as not caring about them.

Until we address this, we will continue to have elections like this.

And I was partial to that view in 2016 - I bought into the "he's a businessman not a career politician" line but that ship has sailed. He's done nothing to fix the system, he's just become part of it and if anything it's worse now than it's ever been. The only people who can't see it are the ones who don't want to.

 

[SOpirate]

Crazy to see rational posters on the basketball board like OP descend into this level of bitter tribalism.

Yes I’m voting for Donald Trump because he’s the better of the two legitimate options to lead our nation. I can also accept a Harris presidency because I know regardless of who wins America will still be standing in 4 years. Anyone who says otherwise is estranged from reality.

 

[HALL85]

And I was partial to that view in 2016 - I bought into the "he's a businessman not a career politician" line but that ship has sailed. He's done nothing to fix the system, he's just become part of it and if anything it's worse now than it's ever been. The only people who can't see it are the ones who don't want to.

So you believe what you want to see. Maybe others still think he is the outsider and think it’s worse now four years later.

I’m no fan of Trump or Harris. There is nothing that Harris has said to acknowledge the system is broken…she even said she wouldn’t do anything differently from the last four years!

Trump didn’t get much done in his first term, but he had to play defense from a bunch of unsubstantiated attacks from Day 1, and then the pandemic in the last two years of that term. The guy has had two assassination attempts in the last few months and he’s 80 years old. He might be full of crap, but I can understand why people will still vote for him.

 

[silkcitypirate]

How can one explain the keynote speaker to the 1996 rnc and the husband who was perhaps the most conservative member of the house in the 90s voting for Harris? Are they both rinos?

The real RINO is Trump !!

 

[SPK145]

But I also know there are a lot of conservatives, republicans, and self-identified independents who presumably love the Constitution, representative democracy, and the rule of law. And surely none of them would vote for a demonstrated enemy of all those things. Because that would be debasing and shameful.

Harris doesn't represent any of that.

 

[SHUSA]

Crazy to see rational posters on the basketball board like OP descend into this level of bitter tribalism.

Yes I’m voting for Donald Trump because he’s the better of the two legitimate options to lead our nation. I can also accept a Harris presidency because I know regardless of who wins America will still be standing in 4 years. Anyone who says otherwise is estranged from reality.

he is? i dont think that's apparent. you probably think the both stink and wont matter cause you'll make it in 4 years. so why not vote with your morals. Jan 6 should be enough for any good person or good american to draw the line. add on the felony. add on the fact every time he opens his mouth is to spew hate and fear at fervent levels. add on the fact all the nazis and supremicists groups find alignment with him.

people who vote for trump are ok with his morals, and all the above, because they have shitty morals too. you are standing after 4 years anyway right??

 

[SHUSA]

Harris doesn't represent any of that.

Jan 6. did it happen? did trump incite it? do you think it was an attack against democracy?

the answers are objectively yes. and you're OK with that. think about that.

 

[Merge]

Jan 6. did it happen? did trump incite it? do you think it was an attack against democracy?

the answers are objectively yes. and you're OK with that. think about that.

and even if you believe he didn't incite it. His actions during that day should have been completely disqualifying.

He had people begging him to tell his supports to stop and go home. He wouldn't do it. He wanted that day to happen

 

[STLPirate12]

So you believe what you want to see. Maybe others still think he is the outsider and think it’s worse now four years later.

I’m no fan of Trump or Harris. There is nothing that Harris has said to acknowledge the system is broken…she even said she wouldn’t do anything differently from the last four years!

Trump didn’t get much done in his first term, but he had to play defense from a bunch of unsubstantiated attacks from Day 1, and then the pandemic in the last two years of that term. The guy has had two assassination attempts in the last few months and he’s 80 years old. He might be full of crap, but I can understand why people will still vote for him.

Forgive me, but I don't see how the man who's had a stranglehold on the republican party as its de facto leader for the last 8 years can still be considered an outsider.

And I agree, I dislike them both.

 

[HALL85]

and even if you believe he didn't incite it. His actions during that day should have been completely disqualifying.

He had people begging him to tell his supports to stop and go home. He wouldn't do it. He wanted that day to happen

But as the polls go half the country doesn’t see that what he did as disqualifying. And that includes Independents.

 

[SHUSA]

and even if you believe he didn't incite it. His actions during that day should have been completely disqualifying.

He had people begging him to tell his supports to stop and go home. He wouldn't do it. He wanted that day to happen

and is he really that good of a candidate? no. in fact everything hes been saying is telling you he doesn't care about you, but about himself. worse than last time. but they'd rather disregard all of this than vote for a woman. their life hasn't been different the last 4 years compared the the previous 4. nothing has actually changed for them. they like the life that donald lives. they like his morals. they like they world where they dont have to be nice or decent. think of the neighbors gun hobby!

 

[HALL85]

Forgive me, but I don't see how the man who's had a stranglehold on the republican party as its de facto leader for the last 8 years can still be considered an outsider.

And I agree, I dislike them both.

But isn’t what happened shows that he is an outsider and a successful outsider if he’s had that kind of effect on the party. An outsider who now has historical party leaders like Cheney campaigning against him.

 

[SPK145]

Jan 6. did it happen? did trump incite it? do you think it was an attack against democracy?

the answers are objectively yes. and you're OK with that. think about that.

I have thought about it and he's still a better candidate for the future of the U.S. than Harris.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I know folks like to bicker back and forth here and all. And differ on matters of policy.

But I also know there are a lot of conservatives, republicans, and self-identified independents who presumably love the Constitution, representative democracy, and the rule of law. And surely none of them would vote for a demonstrated enemy of all those things. Because that would be debasing and shameful.

Cool.

I'm following the rest of the idiots and be a one issue voter like the many who only care about being able to have unprotected sex without consequences except my issue is people born with a penis shouldn't be playing in women's sports.

 

[SOpirate]

I see this thread has been hijacked by our resident morality police. You know, the same guy who calls teenagers low IQ when they don’t play basketball as well as he thinks they should.

Bottom line is we are voting for a President, not an alter boy. I’m going to vote for Donald Trump on November 5th because in my rational calculation, he is the best option on the ballot.

Then when I lay down that night I will sleep comfortably knowing that I’m a good person with good morals. Certainly more so than keyboard warriors who anonymously attack college kids.

 

[STLPirate12]

But isn’t what happened shows that he is an outsider and a successful outsider if he’s had that kind of effect on the party. An outsider who now has historical party leaders like Cheney campaigning against him.

I guess the term "outsider" is a bit relative. His firebrand tactics certainly are outside the boundaries of the more traditional political game and it's those tactics, rather than campaign positions, that have other conservatives campaigning against him. Of course that same thing is a major part of what got him so much support.

I was hoping for more of an outsider to the political culture of prioritizing preservation of power over the good of the country, but he's very much an insider in that regard. Even the champion of it.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

People who vote for trump are ok with his morals, and all the above, because they have shitty morals too. you are standing after 4 years anyway right??

Or more against the morals of things like men playing women's sports and kids being able change their sex. I'll be standing but I'm not sure about the girl at 3rd base who takes a line drive to the head.

 

[Merge]

But as the polls go half the country doesn’t see that what he did as disqualifying. And that includes Independents.

The cult members won't believe he could possibly do anything wrong, and then the rest likely don't follow things that closely and don't understand that he was watching and refusing asks to get his supporters to tone it down.

 

[Merge]

I'm following the rest of the idiots and be a one issue voter like the many who only care about being able to have unprotected sex without consequences except my issue is people born with a penis shouldn't be playing in women's sports.

I agree with you that they shouldn't, but there are so few of them and they did while Trump was in office too.
No one really cared then though because it wasn't an issue to manipulate people's emotions.

 

[chickenbox]

No tribalism and no alcohol. It really isn't complicated. At all. No one on this board would ever ever accept a Democrat who does and says 1/1000th of what Trump does and says. That this man is even allowed to run for office again, let alone win a party's nomination, shows how far gone things have gone. Readopt an ounce of integrity with respect to what patriotism is supposed to be. Step back from the void. What ever happened to principles?

 

[HALL85]

I guess the term "outsider" is a bit relative. His firebrand tactics certainly are outside the boundaries of the more traditional political game and it's those tactics, rather than campaign positions, that have other conservatives campaigning against him. Of course that same thing is a major part of what got him so much support.

I was hoping for more of an outsider to the political culture of prioritizing preservation of power over the good of the country, but he's very much an insider in that regard. Even the champion of it.

We all have our view of what an outsider should be. I’ve said before, I think the biggest problem with our system is that it’s come down to two parties that really don’t represent the majority of the population. Most people are voting NOT to elect the other guy. Congress has a 12% approval rating. We need a third or fourth party at forces consensus to rule. Unfortunately the deck is stacked against a meaningful third, much less fourth party.

Trump was able to start his movement from within the Republican Party (and considering he was a Democrat for most of his life, even more amazing).

He’s tapped into things that many Americans care about (crime, cost of living, illegal aliens, drug trafficking). He gets away with what he’s saying because it’s not what the establishment says. Amazing to me how people go on rants about him rather than try to understand what is causing the dissatisfaction across the the board.

 

[SOpirate]

No tribalism and no alcohol. It really isn't complicated. At all. No one on this board would ever ever accept a Democrat who does and says 1/1000th of what Trump does and says. That this man is even allowed to run for office again, let alone win a party's nomination, shows how far gone things have gone. Readopt an ounce of integrity with respect to what patriotism is supposed to be. Step back from the void. What ever happened to principles?

What is patriotism if not making a decision based off of what you think is in the best interest for your country?

For some that decision will be Donald Trump. For others it is Kamala Harris. Showing contempt for those who vote differently than you is the antithesis of patriotism.

 

[HALL85]

The cult members won't believe he could possibly do anything wrong, and then the rest likely don't follow things that closely and don't understand that he was watching and refusing asks to get his supporters to tone it down.

That’s pretty lame considering the Congressional investigation in prime time. The more you use the cult word shows that you are missing the point.

 

[PiratePride]

I agree with you that they shouldn't, but there are so few of them and they did while Trump was in office too.
No one really cared then though because it wasn't an issue to manipulate people's emotions.

well, you ignore a couple things.... the phenomena has been increasing and it does impact the safety of female athletes and outright fairness and common sense. How would you feel if your daughter suffered an orbital fracture or a concussion playing against a 6'2" male to female trans volleyball player..... or would you not allow your emotions to be manipulated?

 

[Merge]

That’s pretty lame considering the Congressional investigation in prime time. The more you use the cult word shows that you are missing the point.

Not really. Watch videos of people at a Trump rally. The crazy ones are part of a cult, and they can’t admit he ever did anything wrong.
They think Jan 6th was all Antifa and Nancy Pelosi’s fault.

 

[SHallguy2]

Whoever wins I think we should all meet for a beer on Wednesday. It would be a unique opportunity to help some cope with the misery they will surely have the next 4 years. We could set an agenda of discussions. I’m sure whoever loses will be crying foul and election fraud so that would top the list. We could extend an invitation to Dr. Kevorkian in the event someone wants to be put to rest.
In the end life goes on…

 

[STLPirate12]

We all have our view of what an outsider should be. I’ve said before, I think the biggest problem with our system is that it’s come down to two parties that really don’t represent the majority of the population. Most people are voting NOT to elect the other guy. Congress has a 12% approval rating. We need a third or fourth party at forces consensus to rule. Unfortunately the deck is stacked against a meaningful third, much less fourth party.

Trump was able to start his movement from within the Republican Party (and considering he was a Democrat for most of his life, even more amazing).

He’s tapped into things that many Americans care about (crime, cost of living, illegal aliens, drug trafficking). He gets away with what he’s saying because it’s not what the establishment says. Amazing to me how people go on rants about him rather than try to understand what is causing the dissatisfaction across the the board.

The reality also is that if he graciously accepted defeat in 2020 like a mature adult, this wouldn't be close right now.

I don't think more political parties would fix anything. All political parties do is promote groupthink. Trump didn't change that, he just became the leader of one of the think tanks. And he didn't do that by bringing any new ideas or positions, he did it by leaning into campaigning on the ones that elicit the most emotional responses. Marketing 101.

 

[Merge]

well, you ignore a couple things.... the phenomena has been increasing and it does impact the safety of female athletes and outright fairness and common sense. How would you feel if your daughter suffered an orbital fracture or a concussion playing against a 6'2" male to female trans volleyball player..... or would you not allow your emotions to be manipulated?

There are about 8 million high school athletes.
Somewhere around 0.0001 percent are trans. And it’s about the same as it was when Trump was in office and no one cared about this issue.

If this is your top issue now and you didn’t think about it 4 years ago, you’ve been manipulated. Sorry.

 

[HALL85]

Not really. Watch videos of people at a Trump rally. The crazy ones are part of a cult, and they can’t admit he ever did anything wrong.
They think Jan 6th was all Antifa and Nancy Pelosi’s fault.

And there are millions of people that would still vote for Biden today despite his cognitive decline. We can name call all we want, but that doesn’t change the fact that people vote for someone because they believe they represent what they want. Cult is demeaning, like garbage and deplorables.

I have the opportunity to interact with a lot of people in our community, some which fit your definition who wear their support of Trump proudly.

They are police, fire, first responders, healthcare, workers, people that run manufacturing companies every day and care about supporting their families and keeping them safe. That gives selflessly to members of the community and don’t look for any accolades.

Need to look a little deeper and not stereotype.

 

[STLPirate12]

well, you ignore a couple things.... the phenomena has been increasing and it does impact the safety of female athletes and outright fairness and common sense. How would you feel if your daughter suffered an orbital fracture or a concussion playing against a 6'2" male to female trans volleyball player..... or would you not allow your emotions to be manipulated?

While I'm on the same side, I find it ridiculous that this is even a federal issue. The governing body of any independent sports league should be free to make that decision for itself. Then people are free to decide if they choose to participate in that league or not and insurance companies are free to decide what they'd like to charge the league for coverage. The only legal ruling that perhaps needs to be made would be that any sporting participation decision made for the purposes of safety or sporting fairness have no liability to discrimination lawsuits (with the exception of something that has both a men's and women's division turning anyone away from both).

I feel like something like that should already exist though as it gets into the areas of weight classes, age groups, safety of wearing religious jewelry/garments, etc.

 

[SPK145]

Whoever wins I think we should all meet for a beer on Wednesday.

Will we really know the results by Wednesday??

 

[Merge]

And there are millions of people that would still vote for Biden today despite his cognitive decline. We can name call all we want, but that doesn’t change the fact that people vote for someone because they believe they represent what they want. Cult is demeaning, like garbage and deplorables.

I have the opportunity to interact with a lot of people in our community, some which fit your definition who wear their support of Trump proudly.

They are police, fire, first responders, healthcare, workers, people that run manufacturing companies every day and care about supporting their families and keeping them safe. That gives selflessly to members of the community and don’t look for any accolades.

Need to look a little deeper and not stereotype.

I get why people would vote for Trump over Harris. Still backing Trump in 2024 before and during the primary though is different.
Those people who would pick Biden in a Primary today given his cognitive decline would be just as bad but Biden would not have won a primary if there was one now.

People who make Trump their entire personality with their wardrove, tattoos, cars, boats etc?
Sorry, that's a cult. I'd say (and have said) the same to them. That doesn't mean they are bad people, it means that a politician has manipulated them into underserved loyalty and praise, and they are not willing to see his flaws.

 

[SPK145]

Readopt an ounce of integrity with respect to what patriotism is supposed to be. Step back from the void. What ever happened to principles?

And Harris fits this??