Southern border security - 23 things more secure

[HALL85]

Bottom line is that we wouldn’t be here if the administration actually addressed the problem. They have ignored it, millions have come across the border illegally and now they want to blame others for doing exactly what they were doing.

What’s “gross” to me are migrants cooking to death inside a trailer on the border, migrants drowning in the Rio Grande, migrants not being discouraged for even attempting to cross, flying thousands of migrants in the middle of the night to those same states that you are now concerned about, record amounts of fentanyl coming in and killing tens of thousands.

A hundred migrants in Nantucket? You find the most interesting issues to be outraged about.

 

[Pirata]

The transportation is voluntary. Not sure what is gross about people voluntarily accepting transportation to another city.

Especially cities that have advertised themselves as sanctuary cities so why wouldn't they be prepared to accept with open arms

 

[HALL85]

The transportation is voluntary. Not sure what is gross about people voluntarily accepting transportation to another city.

You mean we’re not ripping babies from their mothers arms?”….

 

[Merge]

Bottom line is that we wouldn’t be here if the administration actually addressed the problem. They have ignored it, millions have come across the border illegally and now they want to blame others for doing exactly what they were doing.

What’s “gross” to me are migrants cooking to death inside a trailer on the border, migrants drowning in the Rio Grande, migrants not being discouraged for even attempting to cross, flying thousands of migrants in the middle of the night to those same states that you are now concerned about, record amounts of fentanyl coming in and killing tens of thousands.

A hundred migrants in Nantucket? You find the most interesting issues to be outraged about.

Yes all of those other things are bad. One of them was a choice by a politician to make a political stunt.
Am I outraged? No. Just calling it what it is. A gross political stunt.

Biden is failing on this issue. As did Trump, as did Obama, as did Bush etc…

Desantis trying to own the libs isn’t the kind of leadership that is going to help.

 

[Merge]

The transportation is voluntary. Not sure what is gross about people voluntarily accepting transportation to another city.

… being lied to that their was food, jobs and housing on the other side… all for a photo op.

 

[HALL85]

Yes all of those other things are bad. One of them was a choice by a politician to make a political stunt.
Am I outraged? No. Just calling it what it is. A gross political stunt.

Biden is failing on this issue. As did Trump, as did Obama, as did Bush etc…

Desantis trying to own the libs isn’t the kind of leadership that is going to help.

You missed a key distinction in that Trump actually did try to do something and was prevented from doing so.

Migrants have been used by pawns by both sides. You seem obsessed with DiSantis for some reason. No one forced them against their will to get on those buses or planes.

 

[Pirata]

Merge,

I respect your posting and the research you do and the opinions you have even if I don't agree with him.

On this issue I think you are absolutely on the wrong side.

The border situation is an absolute disaster and it is 100% on Biden.

I understand you are a staunch liberal and staunch Democrat and trying to defend your team but you should pack it in. This is an unmitigated disaster.

 

[SHallguy2]

No. I'm calling out anyone doing the work. I am saying it was a political stunt.
We call those out here all the time. Republicans want to change the topic heading into the midterms and that seems to be wise since there has been a shift towards democrats since Roe was overturned. They want to put a magnifying glass on the issue that will work best for them which is immigration.

Telling these people there will be food housing and jobs waiting for them to get them on the plane and then not telling anyone there are coming? You're free to disagree, I just think that is gross.




I do help where / when I can. Not saying I'm perfect and there is of course plenty of room for improvement.

No. I'm calling out anyone doing the work. I am saying it was a political stunt.

We call those out here all the time. Republicans want to change the topic heading into the midterms and that seems to be wise since there has been a shift towards democrats since Roe was overturned. They want to put a magnifying glass on the issue that will work best for them which is immigration.

Telling these people there will be food housing and jobs waiting for them to get them on the plane and then not telling anyone there are coming? You're free to disagree, I just think that is gross.




I do help where / when I can. Not saying I'm perfect and there is of course plenty of room for improvement.

No. I'm calling out anyone doing the work. I am saying it was a political stunt.
We call those out here all the time. Republicans want to change the topic heading into the midterms and that seems to be wise since there has been a shift towards democrats since Roe was overturned. They want to put a magnifying glass on the issue that will work best for them which is immigration.

Telling these people there will be food housing and jobs waiting for them to get them on the plane and then not telling anyone there are coming? You're free to disagree, I just think that is gross.




I do help where / when I can. Not saying I'm perfect and there is of course plenty of room for improvement.

They have been sending buses for months, no one was talking about it, now they are talking which is good.
I feel very strongly about this subject, sorry if I went to far. The bigger point is many people want nothing to do with people down on their luck with no food or shelter. If you had a dog or a cat without a home hundreds of people would want to help.
People will say things like, there are plenty of jobs available, why don’t they get a job. Not as easy as most think. They are off the radar not legal, truly slaves trying to survive. They don’t collect money, or get food stamps. Plus people have no idea how to deal with people on the street, there are language barriers, cultural differences, essentially no processes in place to assimilate. Plus some of these people could Mis interpret someone’s intentions and do harm or commit crimes in their desperation.
When Joe opened the border he had no regard for his own citizens or for those he was letting in.

 

[Merge]

You missed a key distinction in that Trump actually did try to do something and was prevented from doing so.

Migrants have been used by pawns by both sides. You seem obsessed with DiSantis for some reason. No one forced them against their will to get on those buses or planes.

Funny. Back when Obama was prevented from doing something you were all about results and leadership… not excuses. What happened?

Trump did a few things. Nothing that actually would help in the long term, because again, no US politician can fix why they want to come here on their own.

Hard not to mention Desantis in a thread discussing his stunt.

Correct. No one forced them. They coerced them with false promises for a photo op. You think that’s fine, I think it’s gross.

 

[Merge]

Merge,

I respect your posting and the research you do and the opinions you have even if I don't agree with him.

On this issue I think you are absolutely on the wrong side.

The border situation is an absolute disaster and it is 100% on Biden.

I understand you are a staunch liberal and staunch Democrat and trying to defend your team but you should pack it in. This is an I'm unmitigated disaster.

I haven’t defended Biden at all on this issue. I even agreed it was his biggest failure to date.

Not sure why that is interpreted as me defending “my team”.

 

[HALL85]

Funny. Back when Obama was prevented from doing something you were all about results and leadership… not excuses. What happened?

Trump did a few things. Nothing that actually would help in the long term, because again, no US politician can fix why they want to come here on their own.

Hard not to mention Desantis in a thread discussing his stunt.

Correct. No one forced them. They coerced them with false promises for a photo op. You think that’s fine, I think it’s gross.

What did Obama want to do to secure the border? How was he prevented from doing so? Your opinion on Trump. It’s not about changing why they want to come. It’s about creating a legal, safe and orderly way for immigrants to enter. Securing the border is the first step.

Trumps rhetoric slowed the movement and ultimately had significantly fewer interactions and apprehensions than Obama and Biden.

 

[Pirata]

They coerced them

What do you base that on?

 

[Pirata]

Do you not think it is “gross” for the POTUS and VPOTUS to continually signal to people that they can come with open arms and cause them to journey 1000 miles with coyotes that they paid their life savings to and risk being raped and otherwise abused to arrive at a border at that cannot accommodate them?

You think that is humane? You think that is good policy?

 

[SHallguy2]

Do you not think it is “gross” for the POTUS and VPOTUS to continually signal to people that they can come with open arms and cause them to journey 1000 miles with coyotes that they paid their life savings to and risk being raped and otherwise abused to arrive at a border at that cannot accommodate them?

You think that is humane? You think that is good policy?

Then when they get here, they are screwed and forced into slavery. Forced to take whatever job they can get for cash off the books. You invite someone to come over knowing that when they get here they are illegal. Hey I will give you $5 an hour for a job I normally pay someone $15. Don’t worry you can sleep in my shed out back with your wife and kids. I will give you rice, beans and water everyday. The above scene would be for the fortunate ones.

 

[Merge]

What did Obama want to do to secure the border? How was he prevented from doing so? Your opinion on Trump. It’s not about changing why they want to come. It’s about creating a legal, safe and orderly way for immigrants to enter. Securing the border is the first step.

Trumps rhetoric slowed the movement and ultimately had significantly fewer interactions and apprehensions than Obama and Biden.

? Apprehensions and interactions per year decreased quite a bit under Obama were less than under Trump. That’s not the result of anything either of them did though.

That’s the result of a crisis in other countries.

As things get worse in South America, our border crisis will get worse. No rhetoric, wall or policy will change that.

We still need to address what to do when they get here, but we will never fix the problem without addressing why they are coming.

 

[Merge]

Do you not think it is “gross” for the POTUS and VPOTUS to continually signal to people that they can come with open arms and cause them to journey 1000 miles with coyotes that they paid their life savings to and risk being raped and otherwise abused to arrive at a border at that cannot accommodate them?

You think that is humane? You think that is good policy?

They aren’t signaling to people to come. That’s fake rhetoric.

And I’m not sure what policy you’re suggesting that would help these people? They understand the risks of their journey, but the fact that they believe (and still may be correct) that is the better option for them is the problem.

 

[HALL85]

As things get worse in South America, our border crisis will get worse. No rhetoric, wall or policy will change that.

We still need to address what to do when they get here, but we will never fix the problem without addressing why they are coming.

That really makes no sense. You don’t ignore doing all those things (policy, rhetoric, wall), if you expect it to get worse. I guess we should not bother TSA and airline security if we expect terrorism to get worse.

How do you propose fixing what’s wrong in South American countries? Why is that our responsibility?

 

[Merge]

That really makes no sense. You don’t ignore doing all those things (policy, rhetoric, wall), if you expect it to get worse. I guess we should not bother TSA and airline security if we expect terrorism to get worse.

How do you propose fixing what’s wrong in South American countries? Why is that our responsibility?

I didn’t say we should do nothing. We should secure our border, but the people we are talking about in this thread are not coming in because of a weak border. They came in asking for asylum.

We either deport them, detain them or let them in pending a hearing.

The crisis is a humanitarian one. As conditions get worse in other countries, more and more people will try to come here. It’s not our responsibility to fix other countries, but it becomes our problem if conditions in those countries makes the people more and more desperate to leave and come here.

It’s like fixing a leak under your sink with a bucket. You can hope the cause goes away on its own, but it probably won’t until someone addresses the actual problem.

 

[SHUMAN]

It's a difficult problem to solve but we need leadership to acknowledge it is a problem and communicate a plan to address. The buck stops with the presidency.

 

[Pirata]

I didn’t say we should do nothing. We should secure our border, but the people we are talking about in this thread are not coming in because of a weak border. They came in asking for asylum.

It's both. Things are not so good in their country and they know they can just walk across our border, get free medical and other benefits. If they were unable to enter our county, it would reduced the numbers. At the moment, it encourages people who otherwise were not thinking about leaving.

Answer this: Why are Venezuelans not seeking asylum in Mexico, in Brazil, in Peru? Do any of these Countries have similar polices to the US on the matter?

We either deport them, detain them or let them in pending a hearing.

At present, the justice department is overwhelmed and so letting them in pending a hearing is giving them a multi-year grace period. The current backlog is 5-6 years. I believe many of the South American claims are without merit and deny true asylum seekers timely due process. I support more aggressive removal. If we cannot determine their country of origin, then detention.

 

[silkcitypirate]

You missed a key distinction in that Trump actually did try to do something and was prevented from doing so.

Migrants have been used by pawns by both sides. You seem obsessed with DiSantis for some reason. No one forced them against their will to get on those buses or planes.

His 1st two yrs. with a R house and senate he failed to get anything done with the wall finally in his last yr. he took money from the defense to start building a wall .So he did fail just like he said he would have a better health plan and pass an infrastructure bill . All failures.

 

[HALL85]

His 1st two yrs. with a R house and senate he failed to get anything done with the wall finally in his last yr. he took money from the defense to start building a wall .So he did fail just like he said he would have a better health plan and pass an infrastructure bill . All failures.

Yes, he had resistance from some in his own party, what the point I am making is that he try to do something about it. Obama and Biden didn’t even bother.

 

[Merge]

It's both. Things are not so good in their county and they know they can just walk across our border, get free medial and other benefits. If they were unable to enter our county, it would reduced the numbers. At the moment, it is is encourage people who otherwise were not thinking about leaving.

Answer this: Why are Venezuelans not seeking asylum in Mexico, in Brazil, in Peru? Do any of these Countries have similar polices to the US on the matter?

They are.
6 million people left Venezuela. Most have settled in Columbia, Peru, Brazil, Ecuador, Chili, Mexico.

Again, there is just no easy answer to this. We do not have an open border policy. We allow people to apply for asylum and if we deem that their claim is valid, we may let them stay in the country while they await a trial. We don’t let them all stay.

I don’t have the answer but the leader who will solve this problem will be the one who figures out how to create an environment where they are no longer so desperate to come. Not because it is too dangerous to try, but because they can live safely in their own country.

 

[HALL85]

They are.
6 million people left Venezuela. Most have settled in Columbia, Peru, Brazil, Ecuador, Chili, Mexico.

Again, there is just no easy answer to this. We do not have an open border policy. We allow people to apply for asylum and if we deem that their claim is valid, we may let them stay in the country while they await a trial. We don’t let them all stay.

I don’t have the answer but the leader who will solve this problem will be the one who figures out how to create an environment where they are no longer so desperate to come. Not because it is too dangerous to try, but because they can live safely in their own country.

There is nothing we can do to create environments in those countries where they are not desperate. That’s a pipe dream to try to make other countries safe. Secure the border and provide the appropriate resources to vet immigrants that want to follow the process (legal immigration or asylum). It’s solvable but the administration is failing to address both.

 

[SHallguy2]

They are.
6 million people left Venezuela. Most have settled in Columbia, Peru, Brazil, Ecuador, Chili, Mexico.

Again, there is just no easy answer to this. We do not have an open border policy. We allow people to apply for asylum and if we deem that their claim is valid, we may let them stay in the country while they await a trial. We don’t let them all stay.

I don’t have the answer but the leader who will solve this problem will be the one who figures out how to create an environment where they are no longer so desperate to come. Not because it is too dangerous to try, but because they can live safely in their own country.

Did you watch the Democratic and Presidential debates? I thought the President sent a message loud and clear to us and the rest of the world. He has not exactly been doing or saying anything to correct the problem. The current levels of border crossings are extremely high. Did you hear differently.

 

[Merge]

There is nothing we can do to create environments in those countries where they are not desperate. That’s a pipe dream to try to make other countries safe

I didn't say it would be an easy fix, but that is what has to happen when millions of people are displaced. The worse the situation becomes in South America, the worse it will be for the United States. Again... I don't have the answer, but if we aren’t doing anything to address the actual problem (the humanitarian crises in those countries) then we are just putting bandaids on and hoping they hold.

Secure the border and provide the appropriate resources to vet immigrants that want to follow the process (legal immigration or asylum). It’s solvable but the administration is failing to address both.

They haven't failed to address it. In fact they did try to make improvements to the process this year working to expedite the decisions.

Biden administration announces asylum system overhaul: What you need to know

White House rolls out new system aimed at fixing asylum, a process that can drag out for years, was one of President Biden’s promises as a candidate.

www.latimes.com

 

[Merge]

Did you watch the Democratic and Presidential debates? I thought the President sent a message loud and clear to us and the rest of the world. He has not exactly been doing or saying anything to correct the problem. The current levels of border crossings are extremely high. Did you hear differently.

View embedded media

And then as president literally said don’t come and we were working on a process to apply for asylum outside of the US.

Border crossings are high because people are desperate. I’m not arguing we shouldn’t be doing more, we should… but no matter Biden’s rhetoric or policies in the US, that doesn’t change their desperation.

 

[HALL85]

I didn't say it would be an easy fix, but that is what has to happen when millions of people are displaced. The worse the situation becomes in South America, the worse it will be for the United States. Again... I don't have the answer, but if we aren’t doing anything to address the actual problem (the humanitarian crises in those countries) then we are just putting bandaids on and hoping they hold.



They haven't failed to address it. In fact they did try to make improvements to the process this year working to expedite the decisions.

Biden administration announces asylum system overhaul: What you need to know

White House rolls out new system aimed at fixing asylum, a process that can drag out for years, was one of President Biden’s promises as a candidate.

www.latimes.com

Show me an example where we have successfully intervened with a country in crisis. We can’t even secure the border and you think we can do something to effect those situations materially? It’s not an easy answer; there is no answer.

 

[PiratePride]

Well..... the administration fails to call the open border situation a crisis....they ridiculously claim that the border is secure.... they ignore the drug problem that has been exacerbated by the open border.......thousands of Americans are dieing. the number of Fentanyl deaths are challenging COVID deaths.....I think the word fentanyl crossed Biden's lips once...... they are emboldening and enriching the cartels......they flew migrants to places all around the country under the cover of darkness without informing the states or local authorities for months...... the border states are covering the cost without federal help.... who knows how many criminal gotaways, sexual predators and terrorists have gotten into the country.... our National Security suffers... migrants are drowning in the river, young girls are being abused.... PEOPLE ARE DIEING EVERY DAY at the border in large part because of the Biden border policy....... etc., etc.......

...... and the left complains about the actions of a couple border state governors to bring this mess to the attention of the American people and the administration..... if the Main stream media wasn't in bed with the democrats they would have reporters down there every day reporting on the crisis at the border.... they have a responsibility to report it and they have failed miserably...they are useless... if they were doing their job, the border state governors wouldn'y have to resort to these measures.....I expect the administration to double down on their stupidity...witness the words of the VP and press secretary

The move by DeSantis was brilliant.

 

[PiratePride]

We can both criticize Biden for not doing enough and criticize a Governor for a political stunt.

Biden not doing enough?????? A gross understatement. Biden is not doing anything. He denies that the sky is blue.

 

[SHallguy2]

And then as president literally said don’t come and we were working on a process to apply for asylum outside of the US.

Border crossings are high because people are desperate. I’m not arguing we shouldn’t be doing more, we should… but no matter Biden’s rhetoric or policies in the US, that doesn’t change their desperation.

100% they are desperate, all for helping them legally. No one should have to live in the shadows. What Biden is doing is giving them hope, knowing dam well that when they get here they are going to be someone’s slave. The guy has always been for slavery, our country is taking two steps back in time with him as our President. History is repeating itself with a different group of people. Thankfully modern day slavery does not include whips and chains just people being knowingly oppressed and taken advantage.
“Modern slavery is defined as the recruitment, movement, harbouring or receiving of children, women or men through the use of force, coercion, abuse of vulnerability, deception or other means for the purpose of exploitation.”Dec 7, 2017

 

[Merge]

Show me an example where we have successfully intervened with a country in crisis. We can’t even secure the border and you think we can do something to effect those situations materially? It’s not an easy answer; there is no answer.

Why are they leaving?
Sorry, if your solution to the problem does not address the problem then you aren't going to fix it.

Yes, there are examples of positive US aid to stabilize regions during a crisis. Post war, hurricanes, earthquakes etc.

We will be working to invest and encourage private investment in South America.

U.S. VP touts $3.2 bln investment aimed at stemming Central America migration

U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris has pooled $3.2 billion in corporate pledges aimed at addressing some of the economic factors driving migration from Central America, her office said on Tuesday, lending impetus to measures to be discussed at the Summit of the Americas this week.

www.reuters.com

These are long term goals and I am not saying that they are guaranteed to work but at least they are attempting to address the actual issue. Still not doing enough in the short term though in my opinion.

 

[Merge]

Well..... the administration fails to call the open border situation a crisis....they ridiculously claim that the border is secure.... they ignore the drug problem that has been exacerbated by the open border.......thousands of Americans are dieing. the number of Fentanyl deaths are challenging COVID deaths.....I think the word fentanyl crossed Biden's lips once...... they are emboldening and enriching the cartels......they flew migrants to places all around the country under the cover of darkness without informing the states or local authorities for months...... the border states are covering the cost without federal help.... who knows how many criminal gotaways, sexual predators and terrorists have gotten into the country.... our National Security suffers... migrants are drowning in the river, young girls are being abused.... PEOPLE ARE DIEING EVERY DAY at the border in large part because of the Biden border policy....... etc., etc.......

...... and the left complains about the actions of a couple border state governors to bring this mess to the attention of the American people and the administration..... if the Main stream media wasn't in bed with the democrats they would have reporters down there every day reporting on the crisis at the border.... they have a responsibility to report it and they have failed miserably...they are useless... if they were doing their job, the border state governors wouldn'y have to resort to these measures.....I expect the administration to double down on their stupidity...witness the words of the VP and press secretary

The move by DeSantis was brilliant.

A bit all over the place on that one. Much of it not even accurate.

The earlier transports this year from Texas to DC or NY were people who specifically requested to go there, and may have had family in the area, and local programs were notified there were busses coming.

That's why those stories didn't blow up like this one.
The people are the Martha's vineyard plane were specifically lied to about where they were going and what would be available for them on the other side just for a political statement.

I get why you die hards will love the move. I just hope that the reasonable republicans outweigh you in the primaries for 2024.

 

[Merge]

100% they are desperate, all for helping them legally. No one should have to live in the shadows. What Biden is doing is giving them hope, knowing dam well that when they get here they are going to be someone’s slave. The guy has always been for slavery, our country is taking two steps back in time with him as our President. History is repeating itself with a different group of people. Thankfully modern day slavery does not include whips and chains just people being knowingly oppressed and taken advantage.
“Modern slavery is defined as the recruitment, movement, harbouring or receiving of children, women or men through the use of force, coercion, abuse of vulnerability, deception or other means for the purpose of exploitation.”Dec 7, 2017

I'm sure they do believe Biden will be better for them than Trump but that is not why they were coming.
There was a surge in 2019. They didn't think Trump was going to be better than he was in 2018. There was just a crisis which created the desperation for people to leave the country.

I am on board with you on the modern slavery part. Get anyone who is here on the books. Strengthen the border, continue to offer asylum as necessary, and treat people who come as human beings, not political props.

 

[PiratePride]

A bit all over the place on that one. Much of it not even accurate.

The earlier transports this year from Texas to DC or NY were people who specifically requested to go there, and may have had family in the area, and local programs were notified there were busses coming.

That's why those stories didn't blow up like this one.
The people are the Martha's vineyard plane were specifically lied to about where they were going and what would be available for them on the other side just for a political statement.

I get why you die hards will love the move. I just hope that the reasonable republicans outweigh you in the primaries for 2024.

A bit all over the place? I thought I was quite to the point. Its not my fault that you are so biased that you miss the point. Or do you? You are in denial.

 

[Merge]

A bit all over the place? I thought I was quite to the point. Its not my fault that you are so biased that you miss the point. Or do you? You are in denial.

I am the only one here criticizing both Biden and Desantis but you think I am the one who is biased?

Fentanyl is a huge problem, though I wasn't here blaming Trump when Fentanyl deaths tripled while he was president. Just as wrong to blame Biden now. We are not emboldening cartels. We have had huge busts of fentanyl imports the last 2 years.
Yes, border states do receive federal funding for the border.
Immigrants dying at the border is not a result of US border policy (unless you think we should just let them all in... though I have a hunch that is not the case)

You'll also notice that I didn't complain about Abbott in this thread. I don't care that he busses people to NY and DC. They offered to end people there IF they wanted to go. No one was allowed to stay after their asylum request and then asked to go to Martha Vineyard. That was a stunt. That is the difference.

 

[PiratePride]

You are right about one thing. I AM biased against Biden. He is the worst President at least in my lifetime and may be worst ever. He deserves to be called out. One point you totally ignore is the protection Biden gets from MSM. Careful .... because you sound very much like KJP. Don't believe your lieing eyes Americans.

 

[ed odowd]

What Desantis tried to do was to get MSM to cover this story and he brilliantly did Exposing Adams and Lightfoot hypocrisy was priceless.Don’t believe MSM has said Lightfoot resending migrants to suburbs was using them as props etc.,but she is a Dem and they usually get a pass.Adams didn’t mind Biden flying migrants to NY State , but Abbot sending them to NYC is shamefu.

 

[SHUSA]

You are right about one thing. I AM biased against Biden. He is the worst President at least in my lifetime and may be worst ever. He deserves to be called out. One point you totally ignore is the protection Biden gets from MSM. Careful .... because you sound very much like KJP. Don't believe your lieing eyes Americans.

protection from the msm? usually if you dont act like a complete asshole 24/7 365 the media wont have as much to talk about.

 

[Merge]

You are right about one thing. I AM biased against Biden.

Everyone here is biased.

He is the worst President at least in my lifetime and may be worst ever. One point you totally ignore is the protection Biden gets from MSM.

I don't think he had a good first year. The media I consumed didn't protect him and were fairly critical at times. I think his favorability ratings show that.

He has been more successful in his second year with some key legislation passed so the media has been more favorable.