The college basketball season is barreling toward disaster
- Thread starter Halldan1
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Where is the KO? Nobody has downplayed the virus. But you’re a fool if you ignore the fact that there is a financial incentive for hospitals to indicate that a death was Covid related. I gave the example about kidney failure...why is that a Covid death? Although the death rate is very small I hope everyone takes this seriously, stays safe and stays calm!
merge just backed everything up, showed proof. explained your exact scenario. crickets. nice anecdotes.
You again ignore the financial incentive. You ignore the wildly inconsistent ways that the figures are published. It’s a major issue. But frankly i really don’t care if you believe me. I will first hand watch people (professionals and hospitals) make $$$$ with these games they play while u can spike a football for some guy on a web board - and then when Medicare fraud is prosecuted I won’t even remember this stupid exchange. Don’t get too worked up about me not caring about your being naive. You have a game thread to get ready for
While that is true, we are talking about the same stat.
When you say that “deaths were not higher during the pandemic”, it’s not a matter of opinion that you are wrong. It is a matter of fact that deaths are higher in 2020.
That idea was pushed months ago by people who did not understand that the CDC data has a reporting lag. They didn't realize they were comparing incomplete data in 2020 to the complete data from 2019. Had they just backed out a few weeks from each year, they would see that 2020 is about 15-20% higher than 2019.
You are misunderstanding the process. There is NO incentive to list a cause of death as Covid.
The incentive is to test for Covid. After they test, they will get paid for whatever they do from there.
What data is wildly inconsistent?
Again, you are not understanding the process here.
The fraud, if occurring, would be to bill Medicare for a Covid negative person as covid positive.
What goes on a death certificate has absolutely no bearing on that. They will get reimbursed based on the diagnosis, not the death certificate.
I'm personally not worked up. I'm just trying to help clear up some of the misreporting which has influenced what a few people here believe.
Look, if I am "misreporting" something, there would be some data available to support that.
My first look into this data was when SPK posted something that challenged my understanding.
I thought since there are about 130,000 Covid deaths, if that is true then the far majority of covid deaths would be people who likely would have died anyway and I was actually hopeful that was true.
I started to dig into the data and noticed some states had not yet reported recent weeks and the CDC noted there was a lag.
If you look at those weeks now that the data is more complete (weeks 1-27)
Total deaths in 2019 through 07/04/19 = 1,507,000
Total deaths in 2020 through 07/06/20 = 1,690,000
So unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the Covid deaths can really be attributed to people who would have died anyway. While I am sure that is the case for some people, Ii that was significant then you would expect to see 2020 be lower after the initial Covid surge.
So which weeks were lower in 2020 than in 2019 after that initial surge? None of them.
What about if we remove all Covid deaths from each week? Through October, if you back out all deaths where Covid was involved, there were 3 weeks that were higher in 2019 compared to 2020 and the total of that difference was about 4,200.
What that says to me is that people are still dying at about the rate at which we would expect AND on top of that people are dying of Covid. If hospitals are doing what you are suggesting, labeling non-Covid deaths as covid related, then that number is not significant based on the available data.
With any analytical analysis, don't hunt for data that supports your view. Develop an expectation and look for where the data challenges your expectation and understand why there is a difference.
Well, yes. I actually use analytics quite a bit in auditing.
I tested the theory that covid deaths are being overreported and the data I found suggests that it is not likely to be of any significance if it is happening at all.
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yea i would agree with that. im just cheering on merge. after months of not having any 1st party knowledge ive kept an open mind to everyone and hes come out on top.
i dont particulary have anything grand to offer compared to (some of) you guys. but i can offer support to those i agree with. sometimes i agree with you too. but this time its clear merge is tucking people in.
Merge is rashiki and im the guy holding mcmahon. mcmahon is the guy that relentlessly tries to push narratives that disregard merges receipts.
love it.
Aren’t you the guy who said that COVID has made it hard for you to find a job?
Considering you are pessimistic about most things and I’m not, I find it odd that u feel compelled to say that anyone at this juncture won any so called argument (although I don’t consider this back and forth an argument). I’d wait until there are more facts about hospital and nursing home billing practices. Until then I’ll remain skeptical on the issue.
Well, to be fair... I’m not sure what he was posting was that dissimilar from someone posting “mid drop” as a certain poster here likes to do from time to time.
it seems everyone is arguing against merge for merge having not just having a different opinion, but for providing information to give a more accurate view of the situation. i dont really think hes arguing back, hes not bringing in anecdotes. im not sure why hes combatted the same way as some of the other covid doomsdayers here.
i think ive learned alot from this section of the board, and believe merges posts have no agenda or narrative. i dont even know the guy.
Skepticism is fine, but I’m not sure what more you need.
The available data says your assumption, if occurring, is not significant.
I don’t think there’s a right or wrong.
I don’t event disagree with Merge.
I’m just skeptical about stats, billing practices and at times political motives.
Most people have a brain here, you included, and I respect opinions. Just don’t see why I’m labeled as wrong or getting my face rubbed in an ass (see first sentence above).
I think it’s probably because of how much I despise Trump.
A couple people assume I have an agenda on Covid because it became a political issue.
and some cant see how the despise of trump is a completley valid reaction lol. anyway. thanks for all the info. you provide a lacking stance here, from what i can tell
haha that ass was intended for my face, i was just pretending it wasnt actually directed towards me lol
1 of 200 that get COVID will die according to WHO. 50 to 500X deadlier than flu.
And you guys are arguing about a conspiracy story about billing practices that are inflating numbers?
Quick question. What are everyones sources that numbers are artificially high? Is it from a Fox News story a few weeks back? Was it aired after the special about the voting machines being rigged nationally by a dead Cuban politician?
Joking aside, I’ve voted republican for every spot in every ballot except for president in 2016 and 2020. I lean conservative but many of you guys are out there on the extremes.
There is more evidence that the numbers are being understated not overstated.
Do what you will with the data. It’s fair to say the negative impact of shutting stuff down causes more suicide, mental
Health, and even health issues from pushing procedures and checkups down the road....but to push a conspiracy theory belittling its negative impact on how many people it kills is too much.
I wish it was only as deadly as the seasonal flu (with a flu vaccine available) but it not, so let’s move on and talk about the other issues like the balance of mental health/closed businesses vs spreading/mortality/morbidity.
And you guys are arguing about a conspiracy story about billing practices that are inflating numbers?
Quick question. What are everyones sources that numbers are artificially high? Is it from a Fox News story a few weeks back? Was it aired after the special about the voting machines being rigged nationally by a dead Cuban politician?
Joking aside, I’ve voted republican for every spot in every ballot except for president in 2016 and 2020. I lean conservative but many of you guys are out there on the extremes.
There is more evidence that the numbers are being understated not overstated.
Do what you will with the data. It’s fair to say the negative impact of shutting stuff down causes more suicide, mental
Health, and even health issues from pushing procedures and checkups down the road....but to push a conspiracy theory belittling its negative impact on how many people it kills is too much.
I wish it was only as deadly as the seasonal flu (with a flu vaccine available) but it not, so let’s move on and talk about the other issues like the balance of mental health/closed businesses vs spreading/mortality/morbidity.
Not sure where you are getting all that. No one is arguing that this pandemic is not deadly and the deaths here in the U.S. and around the globe are significant. A lot of the discussion has been around the unintended consequences of isolation and the hangover it will create over the years to come with an unhealthier and more mentally fragile population. Every action has a reaction to it and you can't look at things in a vacuum.
If anything, I believe we should have taken more stringent measures back in January in closing our borders and limiting movement between states along with rigid contact tracing. I would have been called a xenophobe too, but that would have given us the best shot at limiting the early spread. We also should have focused our resources on protecting the most vulnerable (where the vast majority of fatalities have been).
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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Here we go with the tired xenophobe lines for not wanting every person to come in to the USA unchecked from terror riddled nations, call him a racist while you're at it. What we've learned in 2020 is the people who can only call others xenophobe or racist are ****ing idiots that will ensure the slow death of America.
I have that asshat on Ignore along wth the Hazmat guy. Two clueless trolls.
But a few people here suggesting that the deaths attributed to Covid are over inflated due to fraud.
While that is theoretically possible, I just wanted point out that the data available does not support that is occurring at a significant rate.
Of course, that is something we need to have an understanding of without a doubt. I'd just say we also need to be careful about drawing general conclusions and pointing to lockdowns specifically as the cause. Could have been completely different for example had we provided some economic certainty during the pandemic... but we should be able to test the theory with state data if we see something occurring in lockdown states only.
Not sure why limiting travel between states with rigid contract tracing would be called xenophobic. Probably would have made a lot of sense.
If you were like, "no traveling between NJ and PA because of the China virus" then yes, then I would probably call that xenophobic.
Just to be clear, I was not directing these statements at any one particular state, but rather that isolation for extended periods creates a significant risk with other mental health and physical issues. I'm not sure how throwing more money at it would have helped these long term consequences.
I was being tongue in cheek regarding the xenophobic comment. I'm not sure why you are opposed to naming it the China virus. It did emanate there and if anything the Chinese government is culpable for withholding information on the virus that would have helped us combat it early.
Yes, it did. Though the colloquial term for the virus is the Coronavirus or Covid 19 and that is pretty much a global standard.
Calling it the china virus shows a disregard for the common name in a deliberate attempt to attach the virus to an ethnicity which I believe at it's core, is xenophobic.
Economic uncertainty / anxiety is a fairly large component of our overall mental health. Throwing money at it would have relieved some of that stress and anxiety.
I'm not opposed to blaming China and holding them accountable. I am opposed to using the phrase which is outside of what the entire world is calling the virus to attach an ethnicity to it.
So the Spanish Flu is racist too then. And that didn't even start in Spain!
Personally, I prefer the WuFlu.
The only point that was made is that based on first hand knowledge of people there are billing irregularities and a lot of confusion (particularly early on) by hospital administrators, etc- moreover stats are subject to skepticism as reporting is not easy and not uniform. Thank you (I guess?) for acknowledging the possibility of fraud notwithstanding your hedge of “available information”, but outright fraud is much more serious than what people are “suggesting” in the context of overinflated stats; nobody is doubting that too many people have died and nobody has said that there was fraud to overinflate; merely that it’s worth a look and deserving of skepticism. But thank goodness hospitals, Pharma, etc, don’t have a track record of billing issues or wanting to make $$.
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Can't really speak to the common phrasing of the term 100 years ago, so I would say for certain either way. The common phrasing of this virus is/was the coronavirus or Covid.
Words matter, and as we started seeing reports of an increase in hostility towards Asians in the US, it became more important to understand the impact of placing an ethnicity on the virus.
Spain got an incredibly bad beat on that. not only did it not start there, they were the only ones not political/scared enough to report about it. all time bad beat.
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