This will be the only thread on Covid here
- Thread starter Halldan1
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Since we have a "safe space" to talk freely and, hopefully, respectfully on the topic - here's more food for thought.
Buzzfeed had their annual holiday party recently. They declared it a "COVID free zone" as all attendees had to be triple vaccinated, wear masks, etc. The whole nine yards - guess what became a super spreader event anyway?
www.businessinsider.com
Again, I speak as someone who received 2 moderna jabs on this. What exactly is any of this doing at this point? These vaccines are not operating like true vaccines. People will argue they are "lessoning the symptoms" - that's great for people who need that. I still consider myself a part of the 99% of the population that will either recover or not suffer affects from this virus so I am not concerned about lessoning the symptoms.
Where are we going to draw the line on this? Tri-annual boosters for the rest of our lives? Wearing masks for the rest of our lives? At some point, as a society, we're going to need to take a stand rely on our own bodies to save us from this, before we immunize ourselves to a point where our body's can't do it themselves anymore and it's too late.
How are 5 year old children supposed to build an immune system against cold virus when you socially distance them and cover their face all day long? I guess they will be on the $49.99 monthly immunization stabilizer plan that Pfizer will roll out in 2030.
Buzzfeed had their annual holiday party recently. They declared it a "COVID free zone" as all attendees had to be triple vaccinated, wear masks, etc. The whole nine yards - guess what became a super spreader event anyway?
A number of BuzzFeed staffers test positive for COVID-19 after holiday party, as cases surge in New York City
BuzzFeed requires vaccinations for staffers, and partygoers had to present their vaccination cards to get into the event, sources said.
www.businessinsider.com
Again, I speak as someone who received 2 moderna jabs on this. What exactly is any of this doing at this point? These vaccines are not operating like true vaccines. People will argue they are "lessoning the symptoms" - that's great for people who need that. I still consider myself a part of the 99% of the population that will either recover or not suffer affects from this virus so I am not concerned about lessoning the symptoms.
Where are we going to draw the line on this? Tri-annual boosters for the rest of our lives? Wearing masks for the rest of our lives? At some point, as a society, we're going to need to take a stand rely on our own bodies to save us from this, before we immunize ourselves to a point where our body's can't do it themselves anymore and it's too late.
How are 5 year old children supposed to build an immune system against cold virus when you socially distance them and cover their face all day long? I guess they will be on the $49.99 monthly immunization stabilizer plan that Pfizer will roll out in 2030.
The flu vaccines that we get every year aren’t intended to totally eliminate flu, and they don’t. The point is to lessen the impact of the virus and reduce hospitalization and death. Fortunately (if you can say that) omicron seems like it might be more of a cold/flu bug than a bad COVID for most people, so maybe we’ll get to a point soon with this new dominant strain where things can be relatively normal with jabs for seasonal variants like with the flu.
The NFL comes up with a more commonsense solution, the NCAA should pay attention. I still think this is restrictive, but, better than what's in place:
sports.yahoo.com
As COVID forces NFL into lockdown, testing changes are being made to get infected players back quickly
As a result of this week's massive spate of positive tests, the NFL and NFLPA have struck an agreement for revised testing thresholds set to start next week.
sports.yahoo.com
If you read my last sentence, you will realize that comment is in regards to peoples obviously uninformed opinions on covid, not their obedience to authority. Big difference.
Transferred from a different thread since locked.
sports.yahoo.com
As COVID forces NFL into lockdown, testing changes are being made to get infected players back quickly
As a result of this week's massive spate of positive tests, the NFL and NFLPA have struck an agreement for revised testing thresholds set to start next week.
sports.yahoo.com
Players with a technically positive test can come back to the facilities? There may be some players who have an issue with that. I'm very interested to see how that works out.
Flu vaccines are created each year by global studies that review which strains of influenza are estimated to be the most significant and proliferate for the upcoming season, and engineered with those in mind. They don't protect against all strains of influenza and aren't designed to. This is why some people get the vaccine and still got the flu.
The difference between COVID vaccines and influenza vaccines in this regard is that, for the former, it appears that they are attempting to vaccinate us against ALL strains of COVID, including what appears to be far, far less harmful variants like Omicron - which runs counter in logic to what we do for influenza. Would it not make more sense to focus vaccination efforts on the serious strains, like we do for influenza, instead of insinuating we need endless boosters to eliminate all traces of it? Science and history would advocate that we need to let these less harmful strains like Omicron exist, no?
I understand people will argue about this for eternity because there are always going to be different perspectives and priorities in each person's mind. I just think it's very curious that the vaccinated seem to be the most succeptible to it at this point. I also find it curious that, despite the rhetoric that the vaccines save lives, that 2021 has seen more COVID deaths than in 2020 when a vaccination was not readily available. To me, and it's just my own opinion, that leads me down a path much like the flu vaccine; it's available to those that want it, available to those that need it, will save some lives for those that have health issues, but whether most get it or not - the statistics show that they will survive.
It's beyond empathy for me, it really boils down to math and what is best for the survival of our society and our way of life going forward. A country of 330 million people should not upheave itself, destroy it's own economy, and contradict its founding principles just to take extra precautions for what we now realize is a small minority at material risk.
I was vaccinated as was my family (we all eventually contracted Covid) but no one should be forced to take the vaccination. I personally think that you are nuts not to do so but it is hopefully still a free country. 85-90% of people in hospitals with Covid are unvaccinated which one would think would persuade those reluctant to get vaccinated. While the vaccine is not particularly effective in preventing infection it is very effective in preventing death (not perfect but highly effective).
This is the bottom line. People do not understand the risk, which is lowering by the day (and was generally low to begin with) as the virus becomes less virulent.
There is a saying that "you can't fix stupid" and there are some people on this forum that can't be fixed.
Problem number 1. The vaccines were NEVER promoted as being 100% effective people. At most they were promoted as being in the 90% range! So while vaccinated you still had a 1 in 10 chance of getting covid. So there are all these people who were vaccinated that stopped wearing masks and social distancing thinking since they were vaccinated they were now 100% protected. Let me give you this analogy. Would you get on a plane if you you knew there was a 1 in 10 chance it would crash? Only a stupid person would answer yes.
Secondly you have the anti vax crowed. I say to them the insurance companies should now refuse to cover their medical expenses if they refuse the vaccination. You see how insurance works is all of the healthy people and people who were vaxed are subsidizing the health and death costs of all those unvaccinated people in the hospitals! Boy would most of them change their position fast! Maybe this would fix stupid?
For all those on this forum being critical of the science and leaders trying to deal with this today just remember we have an ever changing virus playing field. Delta and now Omicron arrived and the doctors, scientists and government officials have to adjust policy as new data comes to light.
Lest we forget we did have a president not too long ago who promoted this: 15 and soon to be zero, gone by Easter, Gone with the warm weather, young people are immune, you won't hear about it after the election.
We now have an honest and compassionate response.
Problem number 1. The vaccines were NEVER promoted as being 100% effective people. At most they were promoted as being in the 90% range! So while vaccinated you still had a 1 in 10 chance of getting covid. So there are all these people who were vaccinated that stopped wearing masks and social distancing thinking since they were vaccinated they were now 100% protected. Let me give you this analogy. Would you get on a plane if you you knew there was a 1 in 10 chance it would crash? Only a stupid person would answer yes.
Secondly you have the anti vax crowed. I say to them the insurance companies should now refuse to cover their medical expenses if they refuse the vaccination. You see how insurance works is all of the healthy people and people who were vaxed are subsidizing the health and death costs of all those unvaccinated people in the hospitals! Boy would most of them change their position fast! Maybe this would fix stupid?
For all those on this forum being critical of the science and leaders trying to deal with this today just remember we have an ever changing virus playing field. Delta and now Omicron arrived and the doctors, scientists and government officials have to adjust policy as new data comes to light.
Lest we forget we did have a president not too long ago who promoted this: 15 and soon to be zero, gone by Easter, Gone with the warm weather, young people are immune, you won't hear about it after the election.
We now have an honest and compassionate response.
Scientist don’t know if Omicron is less severe or if do to higher vaccinated populations Get the vaccine.
Should insurance refuse to cover heart disease for people who smoke, eat steak and greasy burgers all day? You’re right you can’t fix stupid.
The problem with your hardline proposal, specifically your second paragraph, is that there may be underlying circumstances you may not know about. For instance, I have someone close to me having fertility issues so she has chosen not to take the vaccine. Can you guarantee the vaccine has no lingering effects on fertility issues, because none of the 30 odd doctors and fertility specialists can do so? Should insurance companies refuse her coverage as you suggest?
Some would argue that the omicron is more mild with lower risk of death an hospitalization. Which is great. But everyone also discounts the fact that it’s much more transmissible with early studies saying something like potentially 70x more than delta. So say it’s 50% less likely to cause death or hospitalization (general number) but you have 35x more cases (half of the potentially 70x transmission rate) then you actually end up with many more total deaths and hospitalizations from a ‘milder’ form of the virus
Which is why the Bloomberg article about South Africa is so interesting in that it tells a different story than your hypothesis. Remember, Omicron was first “discovered” is SouthAfrica in late November, and to date, hospitalizations haven’t had the sharp increase you’re suggesting and reported cases have been much more mild. It still bears watching and things can change, but at least it’s somewhat encouraging
They said it was a "safe and effective" vaccine. Interested to see what happens with the mRNA vaccines in the next couple years. Myocarditis issue with moderna is rising recently as well. More with the booster.
Weird that our government officials might be forcing us to take only the Covid mRNA vaccines soon. I'm sure soon people that received Johnson won't be considered fully vaccinated soon and the choice will only be moderna or Pfizer. This storyline is too predictable folk!
I also have a spoiler alert too. Definition of fully vaccinated will change soon too. Soon people that don't have boosters will not be allowed to do every day activities. Vaccine mandate in NJ to be announced by Governor Murphy as soon as Monday!
Weird that our government officials might be forcing us to take only the Covid mRNA vaccines soon. I'm sure soon people that received Johnson won't be considered fully vaccinated soon and the choice will only be moderna or Pfizer. This storyline is too predictable folk!
I also have a spoiler alert too. Definition of fully vaccinated will change soon too. Soon people that don't have boosters will not be allowed to do every day activities. Vaccine mandate in NJ to be announced by Governor Murphy as soon as Monday!
I can respect differing opinions, but that is just not true. Not sure where you are getting that from.
The most significant wave of deaths started at the end of 2020 going into 2021 before the vaccine was available.
The far majority of deaths after that wave have been among the unvaccinated.
People who talk in absolutes show their ignorance.
Imagine saying everyone needs to take penicillin. Oh wait 10% of the population is allergic. Who cares take it anyway. It’s good for something so take it.
It is clearly less severe, pay attention. I've taken the vaccine and I don't live my life in fear of a respiratory virus.
This isn't about the virus. This is 1000% about hitting us with body blows to soften us up to totalitarianism. That is what the left wants...total government control of your life. The more we acquiesce, the closer they come to succeeding. Comments like "screw your freedom" are an example of their mentality. They take a little freedom here a little there and soon we're no longer free at all.
I mean, they’ve been warning about the possibility of blood clots since last year. At that time, given supply constraints, the benefits of administering J&J vaccine still, depending on a patient’s risk profile, made sense. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with deciding that a different calculus is warranted now that mRNA vaccines are more widely available. And there’s no grand conspiracy to cover up this J&J risk—there was even a short time period when they stopped administering J&J because of it!
The vaccine was never supposed to prevent transmission, just to reduce the ability for the virus to become more virulent. If everyone were vaxed eventually it would reduce transmission, but many are not. Last night on the news I heard the most concise explanation yet based on what they know. If you are vaccinated you may still get sick, but most likely with minor symptoms. Unvaccinated make that less of a possibility. If you are not vaccinated, based on the new studies you almost are guaranteed to get COVID. It’s just a matter of time. If you get COVID and are unvaccinated you have a 30% or higher chance of ending up in the hospital. 30% of those will die. Facts. New pills will help. But this is the same results for disease that we have fought for years in many ways with the flu. Get your shots and stay safe. Don’t and play Russian Roulette. It is not a freedom thing it is a public health thing. Society shuts down with asymptomatic transmission because of those who are not vaccinated. Not because of those who are. Don’t be an idiot. Get your shot and let life go on.
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Wrong.
"You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," and "If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in the ICU unit, and you’re not going to die." - President of the United States, July 2021
Did Biden Say You Won't Get COVID if You're Vaccinated?
Biden overstated the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccinations during a July 2021 town hall.
www.snopes.com
Pfizer-BioNTech says Covid vaccine is 100% effective in kids ages 12 to 15
Pfizer plans to submit the new vaccine data to the FDA "as soon as possible," CEO Albert Bourla said.
Moderna says its Covid vaccine is 100% effective in teens, plans to seek FDA OK in early June
Moderna's Covid-19 vaccine is the second shot behind Pfizer's to demonstrate high efficacy in younger age groups.
J&J CEO said his vaccine prevents 100% of hospitalization and death: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/01/jj-...eople-out-of-the-hospital-prevent-deaths.html
You're right. You can't fix stupid!
Boy, the aluminum foil hat brigade is out in full force in this thread.
First full report from the cdc on omnicron.
Out of the 43 cases one hospitalization.
interesting stats on how many of the 43 were vaccinated. Let’s see what the data highlights before we shut down anything.
www.healio.com
Out of the 43 cases one hospitalization.
interesting stats on how many of the 43 were vaccinated. Let’s see what the data highlights before we shut down anything.
What the CDC report says about the first omicron cases in the US
In a recent MMWR report, members of the CDC’s COVID-19 Response Team provided details on the first 43 confirmed infections in the United States caused by the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2. According to the report, 79% of the patients infected with the variant were fully vaccinated — 20 had...
Alas, I must agree. Speech codes. Eliminate right to bear arms. Failure to enforce laws. Huge grab by government to rob us our freedoms. This governmental behavior has caused skepticism about the vaccine for many people. I would tell people who are reluctant to take the vaccine that, although the government frequently lies to its citizens, in this case it is not lying.
But do you know that for sure? If so, how? I say that as someone who was at first reluctant but eventually did take the vaccine. But I'm not going to be coerced into a booster as it stands now. They are trying to move the goal posts yet again.
You do realize this is a worldwide pandemic without regard to political ideology.
I think that's exactly the point. The response has clearly been coordinated globally. Look what's happening in Austria, Germany, Canada, Australia, UK, etc. All becoming police states. Thank God we have the Constitution. It's the only thing between us and the authoritarian nightmare some other countries are experiencing.
Thanks for your reply, can you provide a link that shows the numbers for this? I looked at total 2021 deaths vs total 2020 deaths per the CDC website. I'm genuinely curious, because I feel like having no vaccines in 2020 would imply a higher mortality rate than vaccinations being widely available by late Q1 2021. I'd really like to look at the trend lines on this.
What is a curious to me reading through all of these posts is the little mention that is made of making decisions after having conversations with your personal physician. Why would I take the advice of an anonymous message board poster; or a politician; or an MSM talking head who knows nothing about your health/risk profile? If you don’t have a primary care physician that you can trust or will spend the time with you, start there. Everything else is noise.
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