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Trump won't Protect NATO

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cernjSHU

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In what has to be one of the most reckless statements, Trump stated the following:

"If we don't pay and we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us?" Trump recalled another country's leader asking while him while he was president. "No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want."

This is inexcusable. Yet, I am sure we will have people some how try to defend it.
 
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Totally inexcusable to encourage Russia to attack anyone, just an asinine thing to say.

I do, however, agree with him that we should not just automatically defend a country that is not holding up their end of the agreement to adequately fund their military. In that case, it should be our choice to defend them based on the circumstances.

I also don't think we should be funding Ukraine, Israel, or Gaza. I know I'll take heat for that but a country that is $34 trillion in debt should not be doing that. If these situations are so dire, we should do more than just provide a never ending stream of funds.
 
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Lets be fair. He did give two excuses for not paying the bill. If either the country files Chapter 11 or if the father of that country shows up the night the bills are due and buys enough chips to pay the bill, that is OK.

We had 2 world wars in 30 years. Nato was created, Russia got more powerful and belligerent, and no WWIII. Countries need to take their financial responsibility seriously. But maybe defending a deadbeat is cheaper than the alternative.

Is there a despot in the world this moron (make that idiot savant) isnt fond of? And he says that nonsense and Americans applaud. Like he predicted, he could shoot someone on Fifth Ave. He could and his fans would applaud that too.
 
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SPK145 said:
I also don't think we should be funding Ukraine, Israel, or Gaza. I know I'll take heat for that but a country that is $34 trillion in debt should not be doing that. If these situations are so dire, we should do more than just provide a never ending stream of funds.
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$60 billion we could put towards our homeless, our struggling veterans, and countless other areas this country needs to have addressed.
 
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cernjSHU said:
In what has to be one of the most reckless statements, Trump stated the following:

"If we don't pay and we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us?" Trump recalled another country's leader asking while him while he was president. "No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want."

This is inexcusable. Yet, I am sure we will have people some how try to defend it.
Click to expand...
He always goes one step too far, but some times you have to put fear in other people in order to get them to do the right thing. Honestly which world leader would be dumb enough to ask if we don't pay will you still protect us? That guy deserved a stupid answer. As I said Trump went one step too far, but really what the hell do you think China or Russia would say if the same question was asked to them by another country. They'd probably say if you don't pay, don't worry about other countries attacking you because we will be attacking you ourselves. on the world stage you're dealing with real dictators, you can't play nice.
 
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SPK145 said:
I also don't think we should be funding Ukraine, Israel, or Gaza. I know I'll take heat for that but a country that is $34 trillion in debt should not be doing that. If these situations are so dire, we should do more than just provide a never ending stream of funds.
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Not supporting funding for the Ukraine is a totally acceptable opinion. I happen to disagree, but you shouldn’t be catching heat for offering your opinion. Instead, you should be catching heat for lying to yourself, us, or both.

Stating a country with $34 trillion in debt should not be funding a proxy war in another part of the world implies you would support funding if only the debt were smaller. We both know there is no debt number acceptable to you, besides $0.

It is also hard to quantify “dire”, but you don’t offer any alternative to money. Are you suggesting American troops?

Do us all a favor and stop embarrassing yourself. Just say you don’t support funding for the Ukraine and leave it at that.
 
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knowknow456 said:
Not supporting funding for the Ukraine is a totally acceptable opinion. I happen to disagree, but you shouldn’t be catching heat for offering your opinion. Instead, you should be catching heat for lying to yourself, us, or both.

Stating a country with $34 trillion in debt should not be funding a proxy war in another part of the world implies you would support funding if only the debt were smaller. We both know there is no debt number acceptable to you, besides $0.

It is also hard to quantify “dire”, but you don’t offer any alternative to money. Are you suggesting American troops?

Do us all a favor and stop embarrassing yourself. Just say you don’t support funding for the Ukraine and leave it at that.
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So what's the number we should spend on the war. $115 billion isn't enough. So what's the number where enough is enough. $300billion, $500billion, $1 trillion?
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
So what's the number we should spend on the war. $115 billion isn't enough. So what's the number where enough is enough. $300billion, $500billion, $1 trillion?
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When supporting Ukraine and our strategic defeat of Russia is no longer in our best interest, or Ukraine wins. What would the cost be if we stopped and showed Putin that he was correct and he just needed to slow play this until the support from the west turned?
 
Merge said:
When supporting Ukraine and our strategic defeat of Russia is no longer in our best interest, or Ukraine wins. What would the cost be if we stopped and showed Putin that he was correct and he just needed to slow play this until the support from the west turned?
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Great so we can justify $2 trillion with that response. Putin was supposed to win this 23 months ago. He doesn't come out looking like an elite power no matter how it ends.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Great so we can justify $2 trillion with that response.
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It's either in our best interest to support Ukraine or not.

If you disagree on the premise, you will never agree on any price. The consequence of us cutting off aid should be a part of the consideration though. If (or when) Russia wins, do they just stop there or do they get more aggressive towards our allies where we end up with US boots on the ground?
 
Merge said:
It's either in our best interest to support Ukraine or not.

If you disagree on the premise, you will never agree on any price. The consequence of us cutting off aid should be a part of the consideration though. If (or when) Russia wins, do they just stop there or do they get more aggressive towards our allies where we end up with US boots on the ground?
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There's a lot of things in our best interest. Do you throw infinite amount of money at all of them? And if we end up with US boots on the ground, do they stand a chance against us? Why do we act like we're the underdog? We're not invincible but at this point we should feel comfortable it's advantage USA if it goes down that road.
 
Merge said:
It's either in our best interest to support Ukraine or not.

If you disagree on the premise, you will never agree on any price. The consequence of us cutting off aid should be a part of the consideration though. If (or when) Russia wins, do they just stop there or do they get more aggressive towards our allies where we end up with US boots on the ground?
Click to expand...

Why would Russia attack a NATO country? Putin is many things, but he isn't stupid.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
He always goes one step too far, but some times you have to put fear in other people in order to get them to do the right thing. Honestly which world leader would be dumb enough to ask if we don't pay will you still protect us? That guy deserved a stupid answer. As I said Trump went one step too far, but really what the hell do you think China or Russia would say if the same question was asked to them by another country. They'd probably say if you don't pay, don't worry about other countries attacking you because we will be attacking you ourselves. on the world stage you're dealing with real dictators, you can't play nice.
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So, Spain is one of the countries that pays the least in terms of percentage. So you support Trump not for us to defend Spain if Russia invades that country? Please tell me we as a country have no sunk this far to support our allies. Article 5 has been invoked once, as NATO countries invoked it when we were attacked on 9/11. Now you want us to turn our back to our friends? This is utter lunacy.

As far as Israel and Ukraine goes, funding is imperative to support them. They fail, it will be afar worse world and we as American will suffer. Investing in Ukraine to weaken an enemy is a bargain investment. It also shows the world our resolve.

What Trump did was to creat instability and signals to Russia to continue the war, because he will side on the side of Russia if he becomes President. sickening.
 
shu09 said:
Why would Russia attack a NATO country? Putin is many things, but he isn't stupid.
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He wants the eastern bloc back. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Just a few weeks ago he was taking about how those countries are kicking out Russians which is impacting Russia’s national security.

He’s already setting up the need for Russia to “defend” themselves. If the US doesn’t have the stomach to prevent Russian aggression, he may keep pushing.
 
SHUSA said:
and the board promptly defends it
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I think you’re confusing defends his overboard statement with the common sense concept of you get what you pay for. If they don’t want to pay, they don’t get. We are not free security for the world. This isn’t hard to understand. Defund the police and they’re not still showing up to protect you. Don’t pay your bill figure things out the hard way. Yeah it’s not going to be great for us if Putin goes into your country, but it’s going to be a lot worse for you. So pay your damn bill. At the same time we’re talking like Putin steamrolled the Ukraine with no issue and next up his half of Europe. We might as well talk Seton Hall’s 2024 final four matchup after the Villanova game. Odds are greater of us being in this years final four.
 
STLPirate12 said:
When are you moving to Russia with your buddy comrade Tucker?
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Do you think the Whoopi’s and everyone else who was moving last time Trump won will actually move this time if he wins? His support might grow from 47% to 75% real quick if that’s the case.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Do you think the Whoopi’s and everyone else who was moving last time Trump won will actually move this time if he wins? His support might grow from 47% to 75% real quick if that’s the case.
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No, I was poking fun at Proud's love of the Putin worshipper lol
 
STLPirate12 said:
Don't act like you Trumpies didn't say the same shit when he lost lol
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in todays world it’s easy to post a link showing people saying that. But my guess is finding those links are impossible to find probably because that really didn’t happen. Saying we’re F’d if Biden wins and saying I’m leaving the country if Biden wins are 2 very different things.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
He said we will treat you how you treat us.
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Why are you defending this? This is Russia who has been our enemy since the end of WW2 except for the fall of the Soviet Union for a few years. Trump is selling us and our closest allies out. What would Reagan think of this? The man is spinning in his grave.

This is jeopardizing the security of the world. And we have people talking about money. At least the Senate passed finding for Ukraine and Israel with 22 Republican Senators voting for the funding.
 
cernjSHU said:
Why are you defending this? This is Russia who has been our enemy since the end of WW2 except for the fall of the Soviet Union for a few years. Trump is selling us and our closest allies out. What would Reagan think of this? The man is spinning in his grave.

This is jeopardizing the security of the world. And we have people talking about money. At least the Senate passed finding for Ukraine and Israel with 22 Republican Senators voting for the funding.
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Why are you ok with other countries taking advantage of us and sticking it up our ass? We will take them out in no time if they mess with us. Security of the world is not at risk. Our closest allies are giving us the bird instead of payment. You’re worried about security of the world but were against all Trumps border policies for a decade
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
Why are you ok with other countries taking advantage of us and sticking it up our ass? We will take them out in no time if they mess with us. Security of the world is not at risk. Our closest allies are giving us the bird instead of payment. You’re worried about security of the world but we’re against all Trumps border policies for a decade
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So, if that is your stance, do you think that is what we should have done during WW2? How many countries did we lend money and have never paid us back? This is a strikingly short sighted ignorant view. This money are investments - Investments for American and world security. You are allowing a dictator to run wild by not protecting our friends. This protectionist stance didn't work in the 1930's and it won't work now. Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
in todays world it’s easy to post a link showing people saying that. But my guess is finding those links are impossible to find probably because that really didn’t happen. Saying we’re F’d if Biden wins and saying I’m leaving the country if Biden wins are 2 very different things.
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Finding those links are very easy. Much of maga twitter was "moving to Canada" after the 2020 election.
 
cernjSHU said:
So, if that is your stance, do you think that is what we should have done during WW2? How many countries did we lend money and have never paid us back? This is a strikingly short sighted ignorant view. This money are investments - Investments for American and world security. You are allowing a dictator to run wild by not protecting our friends. This protectionist stance didn't work in the 1930's and it won't work now. Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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WW2 is long gone. The cold war is over. They're far from threat #1. Denying China takes that role is ignorant. Times have changed. He's not running wild. Again he's not even running through the Ukraine. You're making it sound like Ukraine army is 3rd strongest in the world and this is Putin flexing his muscle. When Putin goes after a NATO ally. let me know. In the mean time I'll worry about Seton Hall facing the Oklahoma City Thunder because that matchup is more likely. You want world security, you need to act like a dick to these dictators. Geniuses like you were worried about North Korea. Nothing happened.
 
Reckless comment by Trump but in reality that won’t happen.Russia military was vastly overrated before war now they have been exposed.Putin acting like he has a military that could face off with US when in reality Russia would be quickly defeated.
 
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ed odowd said:
Reckless comment by Trump but in reality that won’t happen.Russia military was vastly overrated before war now they have been exposed.Putin acting like he has a military that could face off with US when in reality Russia would be quickly defeated.
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I've said that 20 times on this thread. Good luck with the backlash.
 
European countries are concerned with Russia on three fronts:
- Putin is unstable and would he initiate a nuclear strike? While they feel this is a real threat, but they also know if Putin did it, it would be the end of Russia and they don't think he would go that far. It's "Russian Roulette" though. Which country(s) would he target?
- Dependence on Russian oil and being able to make it through the winter (this has been minimized over the past two years as they have developed alternatives).
- Depending on the U.S. for funding Ukraine. They clearly need/want our support to mitigate the risk on the first two points.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
WW2 is long gone. The cold war is over. They're far from threat #1. Denying China takes that role is ignorant. Times have changed. He's not running wild. Again he's not even running through the Ukraine. You're making it sound like Ukraine army is 3rd strongest in the world and this is Putin flexing his muscle. When Putin goes after a NATO ally. let me know. In the mean time I'll worry about Seton Hall facing the Oklahoma City Thunder because that matchup is more likely. You want world security, you need to act like a dick to these dictators. Geniuses like you were worried about North Korea. Nothing happened.
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Yes and there you go ignoring history. I will agree with you that the Cold War is over. It has turned into a war by proxy so that is heating up. First, without US support, Putin would run through Ukraine. It is only because of the US and her allies have been providing military equipment to Ukraine has it been able to withstand the Russian assault. Second, without that support, Ukraine will be destroyed and taken over by Putin. Third, if the US does not stand and support Ukraine, guess what country notices how weak the US is? That would be China who would see that as a signal to invade Taiwan.

Btw, geniuses like me were never worried about North Korea.
 
cernjSHU said:
Yes and there you go ignoring history. I will agree with you that the Cold War is over. It has turned into a war by proxy so that is heating up. First, without US support, Putin would run through Ukraine. It is only because of the US and her allies have been providing military equipment to Ukraine has it been able to withstand the Russian assault. Second, without that support, Ukraine will be destroyed and taken over by Putin. Third, if the US does not stand and support Ukraine, guess what country notices how weak the US is? That would be China who would see that as a signal to invade Taiwan.
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They've recognized the US is weaker since Joe got in. That's why they did this 2022 not 2018.
 
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