Trump

[shu09]

While the electoral map has greatly favored Clinton and continues to do so, I'm beginning to think he could really win this. The three debates are obviously the biggest moments that can change the race but the fact that he has recovered in polling to pull about even is significant. He had a terrible summer but has managed to survive it and even strengthen his position.

Clinton is such an uninspiring candidate. If the Democrats were running a fresh face, that person would be winning this election by a huge margin. While Trump has even higher negatives, he does inspire a certain group of people. Never underestimate the angry and inspired voter. Trump has that going for him and it's going to keep him in the race all the way through, in my view. I'm becoming more and more convinced that whoever wins this election will do so by a very thin margin.

 

[HALL85]

Not how you start but how you finish. Clinton's favorability numbers are the worst by far in her entire career. Trump does know TV and showmanship....proved that in the primary. Nothing would surprise me.

 

[shu09]

I also can't get over my inkling that the other shoe is going to drop regarding Clinton. I have no idea what, but the slow drip of controversy just seems to be leading us to something bigger.

 

[49ers10]

I agree with everything said in the above postings.

Drip, drip, drip

 

[Merge]

There is a path for Trump but he needs to get out of his own way to win.
He needs to outperform Hillary at the debates. Not with one liners, not with insults but by being presidential. This isn't the primary where you are trying to win over angry conservative voters. This is the general election where you need those angry voters but also the moderate voters that have been turned off by his temperament. Hillary is going to bait him and his response will be telling.

As unfavorable as Hillary is... Trumps favorability is even worse.

I am not convinced the race is nearly as close as the last CNN poll.
Seems to be an outlier. We will see soon if it will be replicated elsewhere but their numbers for Trump are 5-6 points higher than anywhere else. Support among men for Hillary in that poll would be historically low for a presidential election. She will lose the male vote but not by the margin that showed up in this poll.

Also, the electoral map heavily favors Hillary right now. Things can change but unless something huge comes out against her I still see a 5%+ win and 330+ electoral votes

 

[Section112]

In a few polls Hillary is losing support from women which to me is surprising. But I know a lot of women who absolutely hate her. This is the election where you might have to make the choice of either who you despise least or who will make the right nominations for the Supreme Court. No matter the result I really hope both parties produce better candidates in 4 years whether they won or not and really listen and know the American public is so tired of their BS. We the voters have to send that message and get rid of the ruling parties and families (Bushes and Clintons etc).

 

[HALL85]

In a few polls Hillary is losing support from women which to me is surprising. But I know a lot of women who absolutely hate her. This is the election where you might have to make the choice of either who you despise least or who will make the right nominations for the Supreme Court. No matter the result I really hope both parties produce better candidates in 4 years whether they won or not and really listen and know the American public is so tired of their BS. We the voters have to send that message and get rid of the ruling parties and families (Bushes and Clintons etc).

I have three daughters who all voted for Obama in 2008. They all despise Hillary. And these are college educated professional woman.... Not one of their female friends claims to be voting for Clinton. My sense is a good number will either stay home or vote for Johnson or Stein.

 

[Merge]

I have three daughters who all voted for Obama in 2008. They all despise Hillary. And these are college educated professional woman.... Not one of their female friends claims to be voting for Clinton. My sense is a good number will either stay home or vote for Johnson or Stein.

Who did they vote for in 2012?

 

[HALL85]

I think it was one Romney and two didn't.

 

[Merge]

I think it was one Romney and two didn't.

Yeah, 2012 may be a better comparison since Obama did lose a small amount of support among women in 2012 and was fairly unfavorable at that point. I don't think the women vote will be an issue for Hillary... and depending on Trumps behavior at the debates, I could see HIllary picking up a lot more support from women.

 

[HALL85]

Yeah, 2012 may be a better comparison since Obama did lose a small amount of support among women in 2012 and was fairly unfavorable at that point. I don't think the women vote will be an issue for Hillary... and depending on Trumps behavior at the debates, I could see HIllary picking up a lot more support from women.

Apples and oranges Merge. And once again, I'm talking about an n of 3. They felt more betrayed by Obama...stuff that was promised...ala Hope and Change became business as usual. I think their friends were all over the place in 2012 as well. They never despised him, just lost respect. They hate, and I mean HATE Hillary. There is no coming back and these are the single females you would think would at least be leaning toward her. Don't get me wrong; they have no love for Trump, but see him more as a cartoon figure; not someone who they can even see is covering up something much bigger.

 

[Merge]

Apples and oranges Merge. And once again, I'm talking about an n of 3. They felt more betrayed by Obama...stuff that was promised...ala Hope and Change became business as usual. I think their friends were all over the place in 2012 as well. They never despised him, just lost respect. They hate, and I mean HATE Hillary. There is no coming back and these are the single females you would think would at least be leaning toward her. Don't get me wrong; they have no love for Trump, but see him more as a cartoon figure; not someone who they can even see is covering up something much bigger.

I understand the circumstances are not perfectly similar, but they are not perfectly dissimilar either.
Betrayed by Obama or hate Hilary. Neither got / will get their vote.

The question is... Is the hatred of Hillary of more significance than the betrayal the same group felt of Obama? I don't believe it will be that significant... but that all depends on third party support. If 3rd party support declines (probable based on history) then I think Hillary ends up with about 53-55% of the female vote.

 

[HALL85]

I understand the circumstances are not perfectly similar, but they are not perfectly dissimilar either.
Betrayed by Obama or hate Hilary. Neither got / will get their vote.

The question is... Is the hatred of Hillary of more significance than the betrayal the same group felt of Obama? I don't believe it will be that significant... but that all depends on third party support. If 3rd party support declines (probable based on history) then I think Hillary ends up with about 53-55% of the female vote.

Again, not necessarily scientific, but I think the Hillary hatred is much worse than that the Obama betrayal. In 2012 there were still some of their friends that voted for Obama. After listening to a number of them I would be hard-pressed to believe any of them will vote for Hillary this time around. If you've noticed her favorability ratings especially with women spiked and are looking abysmal.

 

[knowknow456]

He needs to outperform Hillary at the debates. Not with one liners, not with insults but by being presidential.

While I understand your rationale regarding the difference between the primary and the general election, I don't agree with your conclusion.

Clinton can be excellent and detailed and have total command of the facts. Trump will drop a one-liner and that will lead the coverage. It's what people love. They don't want to understand policy. They want a street fight. That's why Survivor has higher ratings than the McLaughlin Group (RIP) did.

 

[HALL85]

It's what people love. They don't want to understand policy. They want a street fight. That's why Survivor has higher ratings than the McLaughlin Group (RIP) did.

Can't disagree but this how the networks have set these debates up. They want ratings, they want a fight, they want sound bytes. I was appalled at some of the questions that have been posed. The pre-debate ads were like commercials that would precede a boxing match. You reap what you see. Why do both parties allow it?

Why do the networks just cover the 5 second sound-byte attacks instead of having detailed review and discussion about policy positions? Just listen to the theme song for The Apprentice and you have your answer.

Given Clinton's background she should overwhelm Trump in the debates, but it's pretty obvious that he knows TV, is much more comfortable in front of the camera and is a showman. You expect the networks will stick to meaningful and material questions?

 

[Merge]

Again, not necessarily scientific, but I think the Hillary hatred is much worse than that the Obama betrayal. In 2012 there were still some of their friends that voted for Obama. After listening to a number of them I would be hard-pressed to believe any of them will vote for Hillary this time around. If you've noticed her favorability ratings especially with women spiked and are looking abysmal.

Hillary is polling below where Obama was polling at this time in 2008, so I'd probably agree that the hatred of her is worse but it's only 1-2 points so I don't think it is as significant as you are suggesting. Favorability ratings don't seem to mean much in regards to which box someone will check since both candidates are so unfavorable.

 

[HALL85]

Hillary is polling below where Obama was polling at this time in 2008, so I'd probably agree that the hatred of her is worse but it's only 1-2 points so I don't think it is as significant as you are suggesting. Favorability ratings don't seem to mean much in regards to which box someone will check since both candidates are so unfavorable.

Merge, I can say with a high degree of certainty that because of the how badly flawed both candidates are, that to predict the outcome at this point is highly uncertain, much less discussing swings of a point or two. I actually believe there will be an event that will shape the outcome of this election more so than what either candidate says in the next few weeks.

 

[Merge]

I actually believe there will be an event that will shape the outcome of this election more so than what either candidate says in the next few weeks.

More likely this year than in any previous election I can remember.

 

[Seton75]

Trump is out of his f'ing mind. I am amazed that neither third party can crack 10 percent.

 

[Merge]

Trump is out of his f'ing mind. I am amazed that neither third party can crack 10 percent.

Neither are strong candidates. Had Bloomberg entered the race I think he would be outpacing both... Though still not nearly enough to actually win.

 

[Section112]

Neither are strong candidates. Had Bloomberg entered the race I think he would be outpacing both... Though still not nearly enough to actually win.

Hard to say but Mike doesn't do anything half heartedly. He would have struggled with the southern vote but he would certainly be more popular than these two.

 

[HALL85]

Hard to say but Mike doesn't do anything half heartedly. He would have struggled with the southern vote but he would certainly be more popular than these two.

Anyone would be more popular than these too...I liked Bloomberg for the most-part, but he lost me with his 32oz soda tax and stance on gun control. Agree that he would have struggled to get national appeal, but I've given up what appeals seeing this election cycle.

In looking back at this mess, I think we are seeing the result of 8 years of Obama, Republicans and Democrats all acting like petulant children. One party went all in and is propping up an incredibly flawed and dangerous candidate and the other one lost complete control of their nomination process and let someone who has no qualifications take it over. IMO the Republican and Democratic establishment and party leaders have themselves to blame. And the press/media has just fed the death spiral. Was hoping Johnson would emerge, but he's been underwhelming at best. Dreading the next four years with any of these choices, but I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir.

 

[cernjSHU]

There were better choices on both sides. Some decided to run like Jeb Bush for the Republicans and others decided not to run like Joe Biden or Al Gore for the Dems or Mitt Romney for the Republicans.
Bernie Sanders proved how vulnerable Hillary was. But, life is about timing.

With the two choices for President (Gary Johnson disqualified himself), How anyone can vote for Trump is beyond all rational thought? As much as Hillary is a bad candidate, she is the only choice between the two.

Btw, I am not a Bloomberg fan. He is ok but in my opinion, I have never seen a Billionaire that is worthy of being President. Being a billionaire has more qualities of a dictator (see Trump) than of democracy in which negotiations and compromise are necessary qualities to have in a candidate.

There is no one I admire more than Steve Jobs but he would have been completely unqualified and a disaster as a President. And Jobs was a genius. Billionaires should never be a President.

 

[HALL85]

cern, I Expect better than that from you to be so narrow-minded and condescending. Why would wealth be a disqualifier for president? If someone has the leadership skills, background, results and leadership why on earth would how much money in the bank they have make a difference?

Clinton, Trump and Johnson are all highly flawed candidates. And who are you to talk down to anybody who sees those flaws differently in each? It's fine to have your opinion, but don't be such a dick about it.

 

[cernjSHU]

cern, I Expect better than that from you to be so narrow-minded and condescending. Why would wealth be a disqualifier for president? If someone has the leadership skills, background, results and leadership why on earth would how much money in the bank they have make a difference?

Clinton, Trump and Johnson are all highly flawed candidates. And who are you to talk down to anybody who sees those flaws differently in each? It's fine to have your opinion, but don't be such a dick about it.

Why? Easy, because in order to be a billionaire you have leadership qualities of a dictator not of a statesman. Ruthlessness, self absorption and greed are qualities that do not make great Presidents. How can a person who is lives like only .0001% of the world understand the needs of the general population?

Until I see a billionaire that shows me he has what it takes, my position stands -No Billionaires for President.

 

[HALL85]

Prejudice much?

 

[cernjSHU]

Prejudice much?

I am prejudice? lol. Hmm interesting that you would say that since I previously said that Steve Jobs was a person that I admire the most. Yet, I believe he would make a horrible President. How is that being prejudice???? I gave you my reasons for my beliefs.

 

[shu09]

Why? Easy, because in order to be a billionaire you have leadership qualities of a dictator not of a statesman. Ruthlessness, self absorption and greed are qualities that do not make great Presidents. How can a person who is lives like only .0001% of the world understand the needs of the general population?

Until I see a billionaire that shows me he has what it takes, my position stands -No Billionaires for President.

What about people with a net worth around $100 million?

 

[cernjSHU]

Unfortunately, you have to be wealthy to be President in the modern era. Bill Clinton came from nothing but by the time he ran for President, he had least had a net worth around $500,000. The last President of modest means I believe was Harry Truman.

But once you are a billionaire you have lost all perspective of what it is reality for almost all Americans.

 

[HALL85]

I am prejudice? lol. Hmm interesting that you would say that since I previously said that Steve Jobs was a person that I admire the most. Yet, I believe he would make a horrible President. How is that being prejudice???? I gave you my reasons for my beliefs.

Unfortunately, you have to be wealthy in this era to be President. But once you are a billionaire you have lost all perspective of what it is reality for almost all Americans.

this is really a silly argument.Was Obama wealthy in 2008?

Should we only limit presidential choices to Ivy League graduates because everyone else is not nearly as smart enough? Of course not. Equating wealth to being a poor leader...wow..

 

[Seton75]

Trump is such scum. Rents office in trump tower to his campaign while self funding at one rate, starts to raise money and starts charging at a much higher rate. Takes credit for philanthropy that was actually other people's money, mishandled his foundation money for selfish reasons...and acts like only the Clintons can be crooked. He is a total sham, from overstating his worth by many factors, the narcisim, the second grade mentality, "he says nice things about me so sure, I'll say nice things about him".

I was the first person here to say his candidacy was not a joke. Sadly even I am right once in a while. And the joke is on us. And it isn't the least bit funny. Wake up!!!

 

[HALL85]

Trump is such scum. Rents office in trump tower to his campaign while self funding at one rate, starts to raise money and starts charging at a much higher rate. Takes credit for philanthropy that was actually other people's money, mishandled his foundation money for selfish reasons...and acts like only the Clintons can be crooked. He is a total sham, from overstating his worth by many factors, the narcisim, the second grade mentality, "he says nice things about me so sure, I'll say nice things about him".

I was the first person here to say his candidacy was not a joke. Sadly even I am right once in a while. And the joke is on us. And it isn't the least bit funny. Wake up!!!

They are both a joke.

 

[SPK145]

Is your wife still voting for Trump? That would be the second worst decision she ever made......

 

[cernjSHU]

this is really a silly argument.Was Obama wealthy in 2008?

Should we only limit presidential choices to Ivy League graduates because everyone else is not nearly as smart enough? Of course not. Equating wealth to being a poor leader...wow..

You don't get what I am saying. Most Presidents in the history of the US have been wealthy. I am not arguing that if you are wealthy you cannot be President or a good President, i.e. Jefferson, FDR. I am saying once you have become a billionaire you have lost all perspective. The qualities to become A billionaire are the antithesis of what it takes to be a great President. Can there be a person that can do it? Maybe. I just have never seen one.

 

[Seton75]

They are both a joke.

I was no fan of Bill and I am not a fan of Hil. But I see her as broken limbs while Trump is cancer. Hilary was a good senator whether you want to admit it or not. The right wing of the house will make it hard for a dem pres to declare we have 7 days in the week, but Trump is everything we should fear. I wish on the the minor parties excited me but the dont.

It isn't that trump is a billionaire, it is that he is an unscrupulous, unprincipled charlatan. He was born into wealth and has done nothing but rip people off to get more. Nothing he says has not been contradicted by what he said in the past. Repubs voting for this sham is hilariously tragic as he used your party while agreeing with nothing that you believe in.

It was around 1980. I sold a computer system to a printing company on Hudson St in NYC. The women I interfaced with and I one day were discussing the trumps for some reason. She lived in one of trump srs bldgs in Queens and adored the Dad. I mentioned Don and she could not have been more negative. I never asked her why. I guess she may just have known him...pt barnum with twice the cynicism and three times the greed.

 

[HALL85]

I am saying once you have become a billionaire you have lost all perspective.

Sorry, that is just a narrow and bias view IMO. How many billionaires do you actually "know"? I'm entitled to my opinion and prefer to be more open minded. I have known a dozen or so very wealthy people (not billionaire's but in that $100M plus range) and it's been a mixed bag. Some real entitled jerk-offs and some accomplished, thoughtful leaders who are giving back, big time.

 

[Seton75]

Is your wife still voting for Trump? That would be the second worst decision she ever made......

That's what she said...

 

[49ers10]

Trump is such scum. Rents office in trump tower to his campaign while self funding at one rate, starts to raise money and starts charging at a much higher rate. Takes credit for philanthropy that was actually other people's money, mishandled his foundation money for selfish reasons...and acts like only the Clintons can be crooked. He is a total sham, from overstating his worth by many factors, the narcisim, the second grade mentality, "he says nice things about me so sure, I'll say nice things about him".

I was the first person here to say his candidacy was not a joke. Sadly even I am right once in a while. And the joke is on us. And it isn't the least bit funny. Wake up!!!

If Trump is scum what is Hillary? Hillary never does anything wrong, so why does she lie so much? Hillary's record contains myriad disqualifications-which supporters and Hillary refuse to acknowledge.

Regarding the private e-mail server Hillary used as Secretary of State, many Democrats and Hillary herself laughed it off and refused to acknowledge the FBI investigation was a serious issue, and they cite the FBI’s failure to indict Hillary as an indication she did nothing wrong. Yet, if Hillary did nothing wrong, or simply made a couple “extremely careless” mistakes, then why is she still blatantly lying about the use of her private email server? Do you want our President, our Commandeer-in-Chief making “extremely careless” mistakes?

Answering your comment about Trump mishandling his foundation money for selfish reasons. Then what did Hillary do with the Foundation's money? More importantly who did the money come from, did the donors get "special favors ("pay for play") from the State Department? Some on her staff were "employees" of her foundation, some even at the same time!

Come on! Hillary has been corrupt for so many years that some simply accept it, saying "all politicians are the same". Yes perhaps however, those politicians are not running for POTUS!

So I agree, it is time to wake up!!!


There is so much more I could state however, there is not enough room on this thread.

 

[shu09]

I agree with everything said in the above postings.

Drip, drip, drip

The last few days have been interesting, to say the least. I think there will be more to come...

 

[Merge]

The last few days have been interesting, to say the least. I think there will be more to come...

It was interesting timing that I watched Churchill's secret on PBS last night. Clearly seems to be a bigger health issue then they are leading on...i was kind of hoping that she wouldn't make it to the election. Sounds like she will though.