United we don’t stand

[Merge]

I find it hard to believe any of our Presidents left things in perfect order for the next President.

"perfect order" doesn't mean taking stuff you're not supposed to take.

Lets be real, had Hillary been president and took a couple dozen boxes with her which she was not supposed to. When some were returned, there were some items which were classified and some that were shredded... You think you'd be cool with that?

My guess at this point was that Trump did not return everything he was supposed to return in February. We knew he had more, asked for it and his response was "get a warrant"... so they did.

Probably insignificant and we would never have known had Trump not wanted to play the victim here rather than just turn over the documents he was supposed to turn over 7 months ago.

 

[SHUSA]

guy makes a donald trump criminal investigation post all about hunter biden? huh? its crazy how demented trump jock sniffers are.

maybe, just maybe, the judge and fbi director he appointed have probable cause? maybe thats the simple answer? maybe its simple cause and effect.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

"perfect order" doesn't mean taking stuff you're not supposed to take.

Lets be real, had Hillary been president and took a couple dozen boxes with her which she was not supposed to. When some were returned, there were some items which were classified and some that were shredded... You think you'd be cool with that?

My guess at this point was that Trump did not return everything he was supposed to return in February. We knew he had more, asked for it and his response was "get a warrant"... so they did.

Probably insignificant and we would never have known had Trump not wanted to play the victim here rather than just turn over the documents he was supposed to turn over 7 months ago.

The question is do you think other presidents had things they could’ve gone after their predecessors for? Not playing whatabout if this was Hillary?

 

[Merge]

The question is do you think other presidents had things they could’ve gone after their predecessors for? Not playing whatabout if this was Hillary?

I think any others would have complied with a request to return records.
Trump did not. He created the drama here.

 

[SHallguy2]

I find it hard to believe any of our Presidents left things in perfect order for the next President. I'm sure every President could've gone after their predecessor for something. Wild guess Bush had plenty of stuff he could've investigated Clinton for. Wild guess Obama had plenty of stuff he could've investigated Bush for. Crazy that this is the first time in our history this happened. I honestly hope they find something so this proves to be justified. If this comes up with nothing, we're becoming a third world country where the current regime goes after the previous regime which will other further divide our country going forward as others have mentioned here. I can see it now they find nothing, combine this with inflation, Trump could win, and then he goes after Joe and Hunter and the vicious cylce never stops after that.

We need to hold our politicians accountable, honestly feel some need to go to jail for crimes against their country. Anyone who sells out our country or takes money from big corporations in return for some legislation needs to spend time in jail. We need to monitor and police our politicians. There is no end in sight for any of this BS. They are all like little children and we are paying for this drama. We the people need to stand up together to stop the insanity.

 

[HallBall02]

Trump pleaded the 5th amendment today…

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I think any others would have complied with a request to return records.
Trump did not. He created the drama here.

You think one way. Others think another way. I don't know why your thoughts would be more valuable than any others, but ok.

 

[Merge]

You think one way. Others think another way. I don't know why your thoughts would be more valuable than any others, but ok.

At minimum, Trump took files which were not his to take and some were classified. He was asked to return them months ago but did not.

Apparently this warrant was the result of an informant who knew Trump was keeping classified information and where it was. That creates a national security risk and we would be just as correct to investigate what was there as we were in investigating what the risk was from Hillary's negligence with how she handled classified information.

 

[SHUSA]

You think one way. Others think another way. I don't know why your thoughts would be more valuable than any others, but ok.

are u saying other presidents stole and kept classified information?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

are u saying other presidents stole and kept classified information?

Do I think Trump is the first. I highly doubt it. Sandy Burger got a slap on the wrist not a 5am raid of his house for it. I gotta believe some how, some way, not all the JFK killing documents are there that should be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe we have a history of presidents who were all saints. If they didn't remove things themselves they had people do it for them.

 

[Merge]

Do I think Trump is the first. I highly doubt it.

Maybe, maybe not. Though I would bet he is the first to not comply with the archives when asked to give back information that was not his to keep which included materials which were classified.

Sandy Burger got a slap on the wrist not a 5am raid of his house for it.

5 am raid... lol

The FBI searched Burger's home. Not sure what time that was.. he was rightly prosecuted, pleaded guilty, lost his security clearance for 3 years and was fined.

Similarly, the FBI searched Trumps home. Not sure he will be charged with anything but I doubt it.

 

[Pirata]

Clintons Return White House Furniture

abcnews.go.com

 

[SHUSA]

Do I think Trump is the first. I highly doubt it. Sandy Burger got a slap on the wrist not a 5am raid of his house for it. I gotta believe some how, some way, not all the JFK killing documents are there that should be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe we have a history of presidents who were all saints. If they didn't remove things themselves they had people do it for them.

and kept it, when asked to hand it over? theres been others? who?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

and kept it, when asked to hand it over? theres been others? who?

that’s a completely different question than the question I answered. Now you’re changing your tune and moving the goal posts from nobody ever took anything to well who didn’t give it back.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

The FBI searched Burger's home. Not sure what time that was.. he was rightly prosecuted, pleaded guilty, lost his security clearance for 3 years and was fined.

Similarly, the FBI searched Trumps home. Not sure he will be charged with anything but I doubt it.

So if they find something, you think a fine and Trump losing security clearance is a fair punishment? Lol that’s a slap on the wrist. But I guess that is the precedent. Ridiculous.

 

[SHUSA]

that’s a completely different question than the question I answered. Now you’re changing your tune and moving the goal posts from nobody ever took anything to well who didn’t give it back.

my post said "stole and KEPT"

nothing changed. no goal posts moved. keep sweatin.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

my post said "stole and KEPT"

nothing changed. no goal posts moved. keep sweatin.

I’ll stick with my original answer. And guess what, all of them who weren’t caught, kept everything.

 

[Merge]

So if they find something, you think a fine and Trump losing security clearance is a fair punishment? Lol that’s a slap on the wrist. But I guess that is the precedent. Ridiculous.

Maybe. It on the circumstances.

Convicting Trump for just having classified material would be difficult because he could just argue he declassified it while in office.

So if that’s what this is, a slap on the wrist for a violation of the presidential records act may be all he could get which could prevent him from holding office again.

Probably what he wants at this point honestly. He will parade around saying he was going to win again except for the corrupt justice system and further divide the country.

 

[SHUSA]

I’ll stick with my original answer. And guess what, all of them who weren’t caught, kept everything.

who are they?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

who are they?

Lol. Name people who weren’t caught, that’s funny. Would you like me to name people who anonymously gave out bags of cash to recruits over the years too? If I can’t name them, it probably never happened.

 

[Merge]

Lol. Name people who weren’t caught, that’s funny. Would you like me to name people who anonymously gave out bags of cash to recruits over the years too? If I can’t name them, it probably never happened.

He was right. He could shoot someone on 5th Ave and you would be here questioning why we would go after him when we have caught every person who has ever shot someone.

After months of trying to get them back, Trump did not return classified materials which were not his to keep. That’s why the FBI was there.

Past presidents probably understood the requirements and respected requests to return items, like the above where the Clinton’s even returned furniture. You just ignore the possibility that Trump did something differently than the rest after 4 years of doing things differently than the rest.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

He was right. He could shoot someone on 5th Ave and you would be here questioning why we would go after him when we have caught every person who has ever shot someone.

After months of trying to get them back, Trump did not return classified materials which were not his to keep. That’s why the FBI was there.

Past presidents probably understood the requirements and respected requests to return items, like the above where the Clinton’s even returned furniture. You just ignore the possibility that Trump did something differently than the rest after 4 years of doing things differently than the rest.

And you're ignoring the fact that it's possible the Clintons took more than furniture. They only returned the furniture because they asked for it back. If they didn't ask for other things they took, do you honestly think they gave them back too? Is it possible the Clintons only took furniture? Sure. Is it possible they took more than furniture? Yes. If they did, do you think they returned everything or just the items requested back? So it's highly possible the Clintons stole and kept items. They just gave back the items that were requested. I mean really, if you have the mindset to just walk out with things that aren't yours, whether your name is Clinton or Trump, you're probably not handing anything back unless it can ruin your reputation. Clinton's were much younger and had a future they cared too much about. Trump doesn't have that. Any future he has is created by ruffling feathers.

I mean you can do this drill with kids. If a kid stole a Milky Way, Snickers, and Hershey bar and had them in 3 different pockets and the store owner catches the Milky Way and asks for it back do you think most people looking to steal are handing over the Snickers and Hershey bar too? But I guess to some it was never respectful to give back what was asked.

 

[SHallguy2]

Maybe. It on the circumstances.

Convicting Trump for just having classified material would be difficult because he could just argue he declassified it while in office.

So if that’s what this is, a slap on the wrist for a violation of the presidential records act may be all he could get which could prevent him from holding office again.

Probably what he wants at this point honestly. He will parade around saying he was going to win again except for the corrupt justice system and further divide the country.

I wish that what you are saying is true but I think Garland and FBI is stoking the fire. (This is a "who is more powerful party) I'm sure if he's cleared to run an assassination attempt will be put in place. If he ducks at the right time he will win in a landslide.

See below for division in the country, Trump's home being raided is just adding further to the divide, so is the media, and the constant investigations without any consequences. We just passed a bill to add 87,000 IRS agents, that should help to bring us together.

Survey conducted by the Trafalgar Group with Convention of States Action between July 24-28 found 79 percent of likely U.S. voters interviewed believe “there are two tiers of justice: one set of laws for politicians and Washington D.C. insiders vs one set of laws for everyday Americans.” Less than 12 percent reported the justice system serves all Americans equally and 9 percent were unsure.

These are Americans not democrats or republicans.

 

[Merge]

And you're ignoring the fact that it's possible the Clintons took more than furniture. They only returned the furniture because they asked for it back. If they didn't ask for other things they took, do you honestly think they gave them back too? Is it possible the Clintons only took furniture? Sure. Is it possible they took more than furniture? Yes. If they did, do you think they returned everything or just the items requested back? So it's highly possible the Clintons stole and kept items. They just gave back the items that were requested. I mean really, if you have the mindset to just walk out with things that aren't yours, whether your name is Clinton or Trump, you're probably not handing anything back unless it can ruin your reputation. Clinton's were much younger and had a future they cared too much about. Trump doesn't have that. Any future he has is created by ruffling feathers.

Is it possible that the Clinton’s took classified material that no one knew about? Sure.

Is it possible that they took classified material that a future DOJ was alerted to, the DOJ contacted the Clinton’s to return items and they didn’t? Probably not.

Just not sure why you’re defending Trump here at all. He clearly did something wrong and you’re just mad that someone else could have gotten away with it?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Is it possible that the Clinton’s took classified material that no one knew about? Sure.

Is it possible that they took classified material that a future DOJ was alerted to, the DOJ contacted the Clinton’s to return items and they didn’t? Probably not.

Just not sure why you’re defending Trump here at all. He clearly did something wrong and you’re just mad that someone else could have gotten away with it?

I'm not defending Trump. All I pointed out is he's probably not the first schmuck to take things he shouldn't have. This is not some thing where OMG Trump is out of control doing things no one has ever done in the history of the country. Many schmucks have. And guess what many schmucks got away with it even if the Clinton's had to give back furniture. Let's stop this crap that other presidents had so much respect for the office of President that they were kind enough to give back the things they stole. If they did, they wouldn't have taken things that had to be asked for back in the 1st place.

Let me get this straight, you're okay that others got away with it?

 

[Merge]

I wish that what you are saying is true but I think Garland and FBI is stoking the fire. (This is a "who is more powerful party) I'm sure if he's cleared to run an assassination attempt will be put in place.

lol... wtf. That is absurd.

See below for division in the country, Trump's home being raided is just adding further to the divide, so is the media, and the constant investigations without any consequences.

In all honesty, he didn't give back items that were requested for months which were apparently significant enough to obtain a warrant to get them back. What were they supposed to do? Just let it go because it would divide the country?

We just passed a bill to add 87,000 IRS agents, that should help to bring us together.

Not sure what that has to do with anything.
What are the resources the IRS has now? Are these all new positions? Did the IRS request these resources? If so, why?... Why would a government agency hiring employees divide us other than some media outlet telling you that it should?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Not sure what that has to do with anything.
What are the resources the IRS has now? Are these all new positions? Did the IRS request these resources? If so, why?... Why would a government agency hiring employees divide us other than some media outlet telling you that it should?

Do you think these 87,000 agents will go after illegal immigrants working at your local pizzeria or with your local landscaper? That would seem like an easy hit to fine businesses and make a good amount of money for the government.

 

[Merge]

This is not some thing where OMG Trump is out of control doing things no one has ever done in the history of the country.

It might be though. I think you will have a hard time finding an example of an ex president taking classified materials and then refusing to turn them over.

Let's stop this crap that other presidents had so much respect for the office of President. If they did, they wouldn't have taken things that had to be asked for back in the 1st place.

Not even talking about respect for the office. Just talking about the understanding of what would happen if they so brazenly just refuse to return classified materials.

 

[Merge]

Do you think these 87,000 agents will go after illegal immigrants working at your local pizzeria or with your local landscaper? That would seem like an easy hit to fine businesses and make a good amount of money for the government.

No. First, they aren't all new agents. They are employees.
Second, I have no idea what resources the IRS has in place and why they need these employees.

Might make sense. Might not... but it's not making me hate my neighbor.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

It might be though. I think you will have a hard time finding an example of an ex president taking classified materials and then refusing to turn them over.

I'll be a little more clear. As I've been posting with SHUSA the topic has been that others probably taken stuff they shouldn't have, nothing to do with refusing to turn things over. That's where Trump has differentiated himself. But my last 5-10 posts have generally been that many people have taken things. This isn't new. Heck even you agree it's possible the Clinton's took classified information no one knows about. Possibility the Clintons did something with list of people(women) who visited Bill. That's just 1 small possibility of an example. But there are plenty of people who did things they would like to hide if they could. Politics is power and they all do things they shouldn't. And try to cover it up as best they can.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

I'm not defending Trump. All I pointed out is he's probably not the first schmuck to take things he shouldn't have. This is not some thing where OMG Trump is out of control doing things no one has ever done in the history of the country. Many schmucks have. And guess what many schmucks got away with it even if the Clinton's had to give back furniture. Let's stop this crap that other presidents had so much respect for the office of President that they were kind enough to give back the things they stole. If they did, they wouldn't have taken things that had to be asked for back in the 1st place.

Let me get this straight, you're okay that others got away with it?

Um yes he is out of control. Its always so odd you create fake scenarios to justify people being punished for what they DID do.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Um yes he is out of control. Its always so odd you create fake scenarios to justify people being punished for what they DID do.

Always comical that you view these power hungry people who sell their souls to climb the political ladder to get their party nomination as good people just trying to do what's best for America, when in fact they're all scum.

 

[PiratePride]

The FBI has a lot to answer for......
after sitting on the Biden laptop since Dec 2019 and facilitating the false narrative anout Russian collusion , getting FISA warrants under false premises, giving Hillary a pass (Comey said there was wrong doing on her part but he failed to bring charges). It is natural that many objective people are skeptical about the raid on Mar A Lago. There has obviously been two different scales of justice. Even staunch Trump haters should see this and be concerned.

Why the silence from DOJ on the raid?
I think I just saw that a federal judge is requiring the DOJ to provide the contents of the warrant. That is a start.

The DOJ and FBI leadership IMO has been corrupted by acting out of political motivations. The question is how far down the chain does it go. Some FBI whistleblowers have spoken out about what was done to suppress the truth about the Biden laptop. Hopefully all the testimony comes out in the open.

We really need to know what is happening here. Hoping that the nut jobs on both sides are kept in check.

 

[PiratePride]

Um yes he is out of control. Its always so odd you create fake scenarios to justify people being punished for what they DID do.

What are you talking about? What fake scenarios are youtalking about and who did what? You seem to know, please clue us in.

 

[Merge]

I'll be a little more clear. As I've been posting with SHUSA the topic has been that others probably taken stuff they shouldn't have, nothing to do with refusing to turn things over. That's where Trump has differentiated himself.

That's the important part here.

His refusal to turn things over is what lead to the FBI at his home. That would not have happened if he cooperated. He didn't. That is 100% on him but you are thinking that HE is the victim because he is being treated differently... but he is being treated differently because he invited it.

 

[Merge]

There has obviously been two different scales of justice. Even staunch Trump haters should see this and be concerned.

Trump was issued a subpoena in June. He did not cooperate so the DOJ was forced to take action.

Why should that concern anyone? That is exactly how this should work.

Why the silence from DOJ on the raid?

Literally had a press conference today.

I think I just saw that a federal judge is requiring the DOJ to provide the contents of the warrant. That is a start.

No. That's backwards. DOJ has asked the court to unseal the warrant.

 

[HallBall02]

That's the important part here.

His refusal to turn things over is what lead to the FBI at his home. That would not have happened if he cooperated. He didn't. That is 100% on him but you are thinking that HE is the victim because he is being treated differently... but he is being treated differently because he invited it.

Yes, Don is being treated differently (better) by FBI bc he is the former president.

For every other American, the FBI would not have waited a year and been so kind in search and reclaiming classified material.

Crazy how the opposite is being painted by Fox News and GOP leaders.

If anything, we should be like “why did we wait so long, they have been working with trump for months to get it back right?” “Why didn’t he go straight to jail like every other American would for doing the same thing earlier on” Etc.

Instead the crazies are saying let’s defund and reorganize/destroy the FBI, DOJ etc when those agencies gave him plenty of chances to make this a non issues…there is no accountability for the former president for breaking the law. What kind of crazy world do these people live in?

Do they actually think evidence was planted by FBI? Do they think the former president should be above the law? Do they believe trump is telling the truth? Is there not enough evidence that trump is a habitual liar? You idiots believe him over that there is a big conspiracy made by all judges, agents, FBI and DOJ even those appointed by Trump instead of umm he is not a good dude and broke the law?

Wake up folks.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Always comical that you view these power hungry people who sell their souls to climb the political ladder to get their party nomination as good people just trying to do what's best for America, when in fact they're all scum.

Agreed most are scum, that still doesnt make trump a victim here. Its so odd that grown men feel the need to protect this loser.

 

[PiratePride]

Trump was issued a subpoena in June. He did not cooperate so the DOJ was forced to take action.

Why should that concern anyone? That is exactly how this should work.



Literally had a press conference today.



No. That's backwards. DOJ has asked the court to unseal the warrant.

Just saw that Garland is asking the warrant to be publicized if Trump agrees.

Garland said that Trump lawyers were allowed to be on site. Trump lawyers said they had to wait outside the gate while they searched the premises. I guess that's on site. No one knows the contents of what they removed except the FBI.

June subpoena. Seems to be dueling narratives here. Trump says they were cooperating. I guess we'll have to see the warrant and the predicates for the warrant to get a feel for what made them take the unprcedented step of raiding his residence . Color me skeptical about anything coming out of this justice department.

 

[PiratePride]

He was right. He could shoot someone on 5th Ave and you would be here questioning why we would go after him when we have caught every person who has ever shot someone.

After months of trying to get them back, Trump did not return classified materials which were not his to keep. That’s why the FBI was there.

Past presidents probably understood the requirements and respected requests to return items, like the above where the Clinton’s even returned furniture. You just ignore the possibility that Trump did something differently than the rest after 4 years of doing things differently than the rest.

It is reported that Obama left office with three million pages of documents. He promised to digitize them. Hasn't happened yet. When will they storm Martha's Vineyard?