United we don’t stand

[CL82]

The FBI obtained a warrant and then collected the information they needed.

FBI had a warrant on Hillary. She was investigated.
FBI has a warrant on Trump and he is being investigated.

Why is that not equal?



That's how this works. They investigate then charge if they find something during the investigation.

Yeah, this isn’t accurate.

Hillary Clinton‘s premises was never searched. She was allowed to turn over her illegal servers to her attorney who then decided what was relevant and what was not in that was provided to the government.

The statement by the FBI Director was not that she hadn’t committed a crime, it was that “no prosecutor would prosecute the crime.” Note that typically the FBI doesn’t make pronouncements about guilt or innocence. It just makes a criminal referral or it does not to DOJ. The decision to do so was unprecedented and was done about 90 days out from an election. Seem familiar?

The raid on a former, and perhaps future, president’s house is absolutely unprecedented in American history. From what we’ve heard, the basis for the subpoena was the removal of presidential documents from the White House. Remember when Sandy Berger actually removed documents from the national archive by stuffing them in his sock? Was his house raided?

What people are reacting to is what appears to be readily apparent abuse of governmental power against political opponents. That’s not America. In fact it’s not any stable western country. Regardless of your politics, everyone should be extraordinarily concerned about that abuse.

 

[CL82]

Yes because I’m sick of the childish behavior on both sides. The bar just keeps getting raised and the division getting bigger. Next the republicans jump in an raid Joe Biden’s house when they are in control. We are painting a picture of division in America for the whole world to see. Don’t think this is going to end well. This garbage should bother everyone.

Don’t get drawn into the trap of saying, well they all do it. That just isn’t true. What we are witnessing is governmental abuse by one party. Suggesting that it’s the norm of whichever party occupies power is in accurate and legitimizes it.

 

[HallBall02]

Don’t get drawn into the trap of saying, well they all do it. That just isn’t true. What we are witnessing is governmental abuse by one party. Suggesting that it’s the norm of whichever party occupies power is in accurate and legitimizes it.

Riiight, it is the DOJ and FBI who abused their power, and that the democrats and Biden are orchestrating this, it’s not because of the actions of Trump..haha love these conspiracy theories buddy.

I agree with you that it is not the same on both sides (political parties) and we shouldn’t get into the trap that both sides do it so it’s ok.

One party primarily abused their power and the actions are unprecedented I agree, and that “party” is Trump and his cronies and at some point he needs to take accountability for his actions and follow the rule of law.

 

[Merge]

Yes because I’m sick of the childish behavior on both sides. The bar just keeps getting raised and the division getting bigger. Next the republicans jump in an raid Joe Biden’s house when they are in control. We are painting a picture of division in America for the whole world to see. Don’t think this is going to end well. This garbage should bother everyone.

Leaving out the possibility that this was warranted... and the president did refuse to cooperate with a subpoena to return highly sensitive documents with national security implications forcing the DOJ to get a warrant and go to his house.

 

[sami]

What people are reacting to is what appears to be readily apparent abuse of governmental power against political opponents. That’s not America. In fact it’s not any stable western country. Regardless of your politics, everyone should be extraordinarily concerned about that abuse.

Akin to overturning an election, or different?

Politics in this country have become disgusting.

 

[CL82]

Riiight, it is the DOJ and FBI who abused their power, and that the democrats and Biden are orchestrating this, it’s not because of the actions of Trump..haha love these conspiracy theories buddy.

I agree with you that it is not the same on both sides (political parties) and we shouldn’t get into the trap that both sides do it so it’s ok.

One party primarily abused their power and the actions are unprecedented I agree, and that “party” is Trump and his cronies and at some point he needs to take accountability for his actions and follow the rule of law.

So, point out a single thing that I posted that wasn’t factually accurate. I’ll wait.

 

[Merge]

Hillary Clinton‘s premises was never searched. She was allowed to turn over her illegal servers to her attorney who then decided what was relevant and what was not in that was provided to the government.

She cooperated. That's the difference.
Though your bias is showing by calling her server illegal. Having a server was not illegal.

The statement by the FBI Director was not that she hadn’t committed a crime, it was that “no prosecutor would prosecute the crime.” Note that typically the FBI doesn’t make pronouncements about guilt or innocence. It just makes a criminal referral or it does not to DOJ.

Right, they were explaining why they were not making a referral.

The decision to do so was unprecedented and was done about 90 days out from an election. Seem familiar?

Yes. Important enough to not linger and were also trying to respect the 90 day policy.

The raid on a former, and perhaps future, president’s house is absolutely unprecedented in American history. From what we’ve heard, the basis for the subpoena was the removal of presidential documents from the White House. Remember when Sandy Berger actually removed documents from the national archive by stuffing them in his sock? Was his house raided?

LOL... YES! His home was searched.

This is unprecedented with ex-presidents because a president storing nuclear secrets at their home would also be unprecedented.

What people are reacting to is what appears to be readily apparent abuse of governmental power against political opponents. That’s not America. In fact it’s not any stable western country. Regardless of your politics, everyone should be extraordinarily concerned about that abuse.

and yet not concerned if Trump was storing nuclear secrets at his house? Really?

Like you would just be cool with that?

 

[HallBall02]

So, point out a single thing that I posted that wasn’t factually accurate. I’ll wait.

This you? You know this is all orchestrated by Biden and democratic operatives? AG Garland already said he made the call. How is this from the democrats? You have more faith in Trump than DOJ and FBI? You guys are nuts.

 

[PiratePride]

I am no fan of Hillary but at least she answered Questions and did not take the 5th countless times like Trump .

lol

 

[CL82]

She cooperated. That's the difference.
Though your bias is showing by calling her server illegal. Having a server was not illegal.

No, she didn’t. She didn’t turn over the unedited server to the government. She turned it over to her attorney who removed what he deemed non-relevant documents. That’s not how things work. The person under investigation doesn’t get to decide what is relevant and what isn’t.

Right, they were explaining why they were not making a referral.

Again, that’s unheard of. The FBI Director doesn’t make referrals in the media. They are a private document sent directly to DOJ. The decision to make a public statement was unprecedented.

Yes. Important enough to not linger and were also trying to respect the 90 day policy.

I suppose that’s one way of looking at it. Another is that it was a desperate attempt to influence the midterm elections that appears to have backfired significantly.

LOL... YES! His home was searched.

This is unprecedented with ex-presidents because a president storing nuclear secrets at their home would also be unprecedented.

LOL, nuclear secrets? Trumps not Oppenheimer. He does not have “nuclear secrets” at his house. On the other hand, Hillary Clinton did have state secrets on her illegal private server. Her home was not raid by FBI agents.

and yet not concerned if Trump was storing nuclear secrets at his house? Really?

Like you would just be cool with that?

See above. I love how the basis for the raid keeps evolving. Exactly what “nuclear secrets” do you believe Trump had in his possession?

 

[HallBall02]

So, point out a single thing that I posted that wasn’t factually accurate. I’ll wait.

1) that the democrats or biden orchestrated it…not a fact at this point
2) that it is an abuse of power by FBI and DOJ to raid his premises…not a fact at this point
3) that he is being unfairly treated bc he is a future political candidate. Not a fact at this point.

You are claiming things that are not true, have not been proven and quite frankly are talking points from Trump and his cronies.

 

[PiratePride]

Almost every sentence that comes out of Trumps mouth is a lie but let’s believe him over all the individuals of the FBI and DOJ riiiiiiiiighhht, makes sense 🤣

You are blind to and silent on all of the abuses of power by the Obama and Biden DOJ and FBI. It is not a new phenmenon. It is the senior leadership and probably a relatively small percentage of high to mid level "apparatchick like" minions in DOJ & FBI who are the culprits. The majority are objective and patriotic men and women. Witness the recent reports of multiple whistleblowers from within the FBI who claim that the FBI has purposefully discredited the Biden laptop and protected Biden.

You really make me laugh with your broad sweeping allegations and assertions and ad hominem attacks which have little basis in fact..... and you claim those on the right are some sort of cultists because they demand equal application of the law????? Look in the mirror if you want to find a cultist.

 

[HallBall02]

You are blind to and silent on all of the abuses of power by the Obama and Biden DOJ and FBI. It is not a new phenmenon. It is the senior leadership and probably a relatively small percentage of high to mid level apparatchicks in DOJ & FBI who are the culprits. The majority are objective and patriotic men and women. Witness the recent reports of multiple whistleblowers from within the FBI who claim that the FBI has purposefully discredited the Biden laptop and protected Biden.

You really make me laugh with your broad sweeping allegations and assertions and ad hominem attacks which have little basis in fact..... and you claim those on the right are some sort of cultists because they demand equal application of the law????? Look in the mirror if you want to find a cultist.

Curious, who am I cultist to? I’m not a democrat, would rather a moderate republican at president than Biden again.

You are the one choosing Trump over country. You are saying the DOJ and FBI is corrupt bc of what a liar tells you.

 

[CL82]

1) that the democrats or biden orchestrated it…not a fact at this point
2) that it is an abuse of power by FBI and DOJ to raid his premises…not a fact at this point
3) that he is being unfairly treated bc he is a future political candidate. Not a fact at this point.

You are claiming things that are not true, have not been proven and quite frankly are talking points from Trump and his cronies.

1) Please quote my post that you believe stated that “Biden orchestrated” the raid.

2) It is undeniable that a raid on the home of a prior president is unprecedented in this country. That is what my post said.

3) It is undeniable that the President Trump is potentially a candidate in the 2024 election. That is what my post said.

But keep trying, and see if you can come up with anything else. Try to keep your tone civil and stick with the facts. We can save time if you directly quote my post that you were trying to refute, rather than restate it creating red herrings for you to refute.

 

[SHallguy2]

Good point, trying to be reasonable but the democratic party has been anything but reasonable on most issues. Posters keep trying to say its the same thing, I guess getting your house raided is no big deal for the guys on this board.

 

[HallBall02]

1) Please quote my post that you believe stated that “Biden orchestrated” the raid.

2) It is undeniable that a raid on the home of a prior president is unprecedented in this country. That is what my post said.

3) It is undeniable that the President Trump is potentially a candidate in the 2024 election. That is what my post said.

But keep trying, and see if you can come up with anything else. Try to keep your tone civil and stick with the facts. We can save time if you directly quote my post that you were trying to refute, rather than restate it creating red herrings for you to refute.

Don’t get drawn into the trap of saying, well they all do it. That just isn’t true. What we are witnessing is governmental abuse by one party. Suggesting that it’s the norm of whichever party occupies power is in accurate and legitimizes it.

You said we are witnessing governmental abuse of power (not proven) and that it’s an abuse by one party (Agree and that party is trump)

Your words.

I also agree it is unprecedented but not bc of abuse of democrats but bc of the wrongful actions of a corrupt former president that care more about himself than the country.

 

[Merge]

No, she didn’t. She didn’t turn over the unedited server to the government. She turned it over to her attorney who removed what he deemed non-relevant documents. That’s not how things work. The person under investigation doesn’t get to decide what is relevant and what isn’t.

Yes. She worked with the investigators to provide what they need. Reached an agreement through her attorney and they worked together.

That's why her house was not raided.

Again, that’s unheard of. The FBI Director doesn’t make referrals in the media. They are a private document sent directly to DOJ. The decision to make a public statement was unprecedented.

Also unheard of that a presidential nominee was under investigation... Unprecedented fact patterns lead to unprecedented actions.

LOL, nuclear secrets? Trumps not Oppenheimer. He does not have “nuclear secrets” at his house. On the other hand, Hillary Clinton did have state secrets on her illegal private server. Her home was not raid by FBI agents.

Server wasn't illegal. Apparently some of the classified material was related to nuclear weapons. You're ok with it though... bonkers.

 

[Merge]

Good point, trying to be reasonable but the democratic party has been anything but reasonable on most issues. Posters keep trying to say its the same thing, I guess getting your house raided is no big deal for the guys on this board.

If you retain sensitive documents, get a subpoena to return them, do not return them and your house gets raided? Yes I am ok with that.

 

[HallBall02]

Good point, trying to be reasonable but the democratic party has been anything but reasonable on most issues. Posters keep trying to say its the same thing, I guess getting your house raided is no big deal for the guys on this board.

These actions from DOJ and FBI are not coming from the democrats…more likely primarily caused by Trumps actions and inactions.

Yes I think it’s fair that they raid my house if I steal classified info, have it unprotected at a country club, host the Saudi’s and cut deals with them at a tournament there, potentially lie about not having them or not agreeing to return after months of negotiation, and if this nuclear stuff is true …my god. I would be in jail for a long time…

 

[PiratePride]

Curious, who am I cultist to? I’m not a democrat, would rather a moderate republican at president than Biden again.

You are the one choosing Trump over country. You are saying the DOJ and FBI is corrupt bc of what a liar tells you.

You are the one who keep mentioning Trump. You are obsessed with him. You are a cultist in the Hate Trump crowd.

 

[CL82]

You said we are witnessing governmental abuse of power (not proven) and that it’s an abuse by one party (Agree and that party is trump)

Your words.

I also agree it is unprecedented but not bc of abuse of democrats but bc of the wrongful actions of a corrupt former president that care more about himself than the country.

The democratic party controls the executive and legislative branches, including both the Senate and the house. The actions we are seeing are the actions of one party, definitionally. The fact that they are taking actions that have never been done before in this country is, definitionally, unprecedented.

Those points aren’t deniable.

 

[HallBall02]

You are the one who keep mentioning Trump. You are obsessed with him. You are a cultist in the Hate Trump crowd.

I’m sorry I’m not more positive with your savior Trump, there just isn’t a lot to like with him.

I choose country over Trump sorry if that upsets you.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

These actions from DOJ and FBI are not coming from the democrats…more likely primarily caused by Trumps actions and inactions.

Yes I think it’s fair that they raid my house if I steal classified info, have it unprotected at a country club, host the Saudi’s and cut deals with them at a tournament there, potentially lie about not having them or not agreeing to return after months of negotiation, and if this nuclear stuff is true …my god. I would be in jail for a long time…

yes you would. And you would be in jail long time for 90% of what the political elite and rich donors get away with yet in the next sentence you’ll tell me how can I not trust the FBI and DOJ when clearly as you eloquently point out they have different rules for different folks. You and I would have much different results. Glad you trust the people who would lock you up and throw away the key and let others go for the same thing.

 

[Merge]

The democratic party controls the executive and legislative branches, including both the Senate and the house. The actions we are seeing are the actions of one party, definitionally. The fact that they are taking actions that have never been done before in this country is definitionally unprecedented.

Those points aren’t deniable.

Unprecedented actions result in unprecedented responses.

The fact that it was unprecedented doesn't mean the response was wrong.

Investigating Hillary during an election was unprecedented, but they were not wrong in investigating.

 

[HallBall02]

The democratic party controls the executive and legislative branches, including both the Senate and the house. The actions we are seeing are the actions of one party, definitionally. The fact that they are taking actions that have never been done before in this country is, definitionally, unprecedented.

Those points aren’t deniable.

Sorry but the president can’t tell the FBI to break the law, close or open cases. They can say “look into this”…they can fire the AG like president trump tried to do….they can threaten to fire them and pressure them to do things they don’t want to do like Trump tried but why would they want to break the law for anyone. Upholding the law for these individuals is sacrament to their being.

You are continuing to relay unproven conspiracies as facts. The president can’t just tell the FBI and AG to break the law and do illegal raids.

 

[seton1996]

New reports says some of the classified info relates to nuclear weapons?

If that’s true… good lord.

No fan of Trump here, but if these were so sensitive/important docs for national security, why did it take the DOJ 18 months to conduct the raid?

Not saying they shouldn't have raided, but just something to think about.

 

[Merge]

No fan of Trump here, but if these were so sensitive/important docs for national security, why did it take the DOJ 18 months to conduct the raid?

Not saying they shouldn't have raided, but just something to think about.

Apparently information came from a whistleblower. The evidence was presented to a grand jury and a subpoena was issued in June 2022.

So it was 2 months of trying to get the information back and ultimately being left with no choice but to go in.

 

[seton1996]

Apparently information came from a whistleblower. The evidence was presented to a grand jury and a subpoena was issued in June 2022.

So it was 2 months of trying to get the information back and ultimately being left with no choice but to go in.

I am aware of that, and it is a fair point on timing.

But my thought is on classified documents in general, if things are so sensitive got to be a better way to track, keep from being taken, etc then being alerted by a whistle blower 18 months after someone left office.

 

[HallBall02]

No fan of Trump here, but if these were so sensitive/important docs for national security, why did it take the DOJ 18 months to conduct the raid?

Not saying they shouldn't have raided, but just something to think about.

Agree. That is why we need things to settle to find out what happened here.

Rumors of classified nuclear material could be just a rumor.

We do know they retrieved classified info that Trump took, the scope of the retrieved info was narrow to that. We do know the DOJ have been in talks to get classified info back for months and the appearance is that he was not cooperating.

Just hosting a tourney with Saudis at his place with sensitive material doesn’t help his case 🤣

 

[CL82]

Sorry but the president can’t tell the FBI to break the law, close or open cases. They can say “look into this”…they can fire the AG like president trump tried to do….they can threaten to fire them and pressure them to do things they don’t want to do like Trump tried but why would they want to break the law for anyone. Upholding the law for these individuals is sacrament to their being.

You are continuing to relay unproven conspiracies as facts. The president can’t just tell the FBI and AG to break the law and do illegal raids.

Wow, there’s a lot to unpack that post. The first is I note that you don’t quote my post directly because that would make it much harder to make red herring arguments wouldn’t it? Please quote my posts that you allege talks about the president telling the FBI to break the law.

hat said, I don’t think you really have a good handle on what the executive branch does in what it can or cannot do? Please list the federal law that you believe would be broken if a president told the FBI “what crimes to prosecute or not prosecute“.

That said, I think I’m out. I’m a guest on this board and while I’m more than happy to correct facts in a post, I don’t want to get drawn into a political conversation as I suspect it’s too polarizing.

 

[ed odowd]

Everyone is entitled to and has their own view..I think if Trump is not indicted after this and the roughly six year investigation of his business by manhattan DA and NY AG a majority of voters will consider this a fishing expedition by political opponents.

 

[HallBall02]

Wow, there’s a lot to unpack that post. The first is I note that you don’t quote my post directly because that would make it much harder to make red herring arguments wouldn’t it? Please quote my posts that you allege talks about the president telling the FBI to break the law.

hat said, I don’t think you really have a good handle on what the executive branch does in what it can or cannot do? Please list the federal law that you believe would be broken if a president told the FBI “what crimes to prosecute or not prosecute“.

That said, I think I’m out. I’m a guest on this board and while I’m more than happy to correct facts in a post, I don’t want to get drawn into a political conversation as I suspect it’s too polarizing.

Umm I copied your quote insinuating that Biden/democrats are abusing power and that you feel it is unprecedented.

I agree that what is happening is unprecedented, doesn’t make the raid not warranted or legal or make it true the the democrats made this raid happen.

I disagreed with your “fact” that Biden or “one party” ie democrats, are abusing power. This is all unproven and thus you are spreading information disguised as fact that is not true at least yet (or ever).

While the AG is under the executive branch he has to follow the laws. Biden can say look into this or that and if there is enough evidence even give the green light to prosecute but he shouldn’t be able to tell the AG to break the laws, which is the exact opposite of his role and duty. the AG could be prosecuted himself if he doesn’t follow the rules, down the road. Why would he do that?

A president can’t just say, go raid this guys house without a legal justification for doing so especially in this high profile case.

Strategically, if the democrats had this power you say they have and it was proven an unjust raid, it would just empower and embolden the crazies and conspiracy theorists out there that say the election was rigged, everyone is unfairly out to get trump, fauci created Covid, Biden is a human trafficker, the FBI is a political tool etc.

 

[PiratePride]

I’m sorry I’m not more positive with your savior Trump, there just isn’t a lot to like with him.

I choose country over Trump sorry if that upsets you.

Please stop. I try not to mention Trump only when calling out the Hate Trumpers like yourself or when I stated that I hope he doesn't run again. YOU, my fellow poster, are posing a false equivilence or false parallel... whatever you choose to call it... you are dead wrong in your assessment.

You like to put words in other posters' mouths. It doesn't upset me. Just makes me wonder.

 

[HallBall02]

Don’t get drawn into the trap of saying, well they all do it. That just isn’t true. What we are witnessing is governmental abuse by one party. Suggesting that it’s the norm of whichever party occupies power is in accurate and legitimizes it.

here it is again, copied from your post.

You directly said that this is gov abuse by one party…without any evidence except the word of a liar and his cronies.

 

[PiratePride]

Look for Trump to object to the release of the Search Warrant. That is very typical of Trump to complain, lie about what had happened while he has the biggest megaphone to speak about it. When it comes time to be open about the search warrant he will object because that information will hurt him.

I wish Garland would have sought to release the affidavit. That would have been great. He should have asked for that to really slam this criminal.

Wrong. I didn't see him object to the release of the search warrant he did just the opposite. Just another case of searching for "facts" to back up your narrati ve.

I am calling for a release of the affidavit that lead to the warrant. We should all want to see that since it would get to the heart of the matter.

 

[HallBall02]

Please stop. I try not to mention Trump only when calling out the Hate Trumpers like yourself or when I stated that I hope he doesn't run again. YOU, my fellow poster, are posing a false equivilence or false parallel... whatever you choose to call it... you are dead wrong in your assessment.

You like to put words in other posters' mouths. It doesn't upset me. Just makes me wonder.

Good about not wanting Trump to run. Why don’t you want him to run again?

it’s funny, it’s okay that you can talk about Trump when using the trump raid as further evidence that FBI is corrupt but I can’t say that Trump is a habitual liar and that we should trust the FBI/DOJ more in this matter over the lies trump tells you?

I don’t understand your logic either my man.

 

[PiratePride]

Yet, knowing none of the story, you were convinced enough that this was unwarranted that you took your flag down?

Merge and you without knowing the story either are convinced that there were nuclear secrets being hidden.... Apparenty a leaker at DOJ spread that news to the media. No one..... no one on this board, anyway knows that for certain.

 

[Merge]

Wrong. I didn't see him object to the release of the search warrant he did just the opposite. Just another case of searching for "facts" to back up your narrati ve.

I am calling for a release of the affidavit that lead to the warrant. We should all want to see that since it would get to the heart of the matter.

Judge asked for formal response by 3:00. We'll know soon enough if Trump was bluffing, but worth noting that he has the warrant and is free to release it on his own if he wanted to.

 

[SHallguy2]

If you retain sensitive documents, get a subpoena to return them, do not return them and your house gets raided? Yes I am ok with that.

I thought you were going to wait to get facts

 

[Merge]

Merge and you without knowing the story either are convinced that there were nuclear secrets being hidden.... Apparenty a leaker at DOJ spread that news to the media. No one..... no one on this board, anyway knows that for certain.

I'm not convinced of anything yet.

I want all of the info out. Warrant, affidavit etc...