ADVERTISEMENT

Women's Golf Coach Leaves/No Swimming Coach

400SOAVE

All American
Jan 24, 2009
3,638
1,180
113
It's was very surprising to read that Sara Doell has left SHU for a job with San Fransisco. There's nothing on the SHU page.

It's incredible they could not retain her. They haven't set the world on fire the last two seasons (despite last season's BE title) but they had built a strong program and could have gone to the next level.

http://usfdons.com/news/2017/5/18/sara-doell-named-womens-golf-coach-Sara-Doell-USF-Dons.aspx

And for weeks they've been without a swimming and diving coach. He left right after winning the men's BE title.

Very bad form for SHU.
 
You can't lose good coaches who built winning programs in sports where SH had almost no success. It is all about money and far too many of the sports at SH are run on a shoestring budget . Just go back to when we were looking for a men's soccer coach where what we were offering was so much less then out top target was getting as an example.
 
You can't lose good coaches who built winning programs in sports where SH had almost no success. It is all about money and far too many of the sports at SH are run on a shoestring budget . Just go back to when we were looking for a men's soccer coach where what we were offering was so much less then out top target was getting as an example.
Does a Big East athletics department want to be known as the place where you get your first head coach job, work hard and move on ASAP?

I know that's what many companies and many newsrooms do. They hire very young and completely inexperienced recent college grads. And you tolerate amateur hour by maintaining one or two adults to supervise and prevent major F-Ups

What is it worth in PR value to win three straight BE titles?

Can we have just one non-basketball program that is a perennial top 25 team? Can SHU just create a single program- ANY PROGRAM- and pay the coach a nationally competitive salary?

I guess they just don't care or are not interested.
 
Even the AD wanted to leave for another job last month. So I guess everybody wants out.
 
Roommates sister goes to manhattan and said the shu swim coach interviewed there so not sure that one left for greener pastures. As for golf coach, maybe other reasons too.
 
Or maybe they just want to advance their careers.

I'm surprised the golf coached stayed as long as she did. Nothing wrong with someone seeking a new challenge in a different part of the country, especially if they have no ties to this area.
 
Or maybe they just want to advance their careers.

I'm surprised the golf coached stayed as long as she did. Nothing wrong with someone seeking a new challenge in a different part of the country, especially if they have no ties to this area.
You have a very low opinion of SHU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SHUisNJsTeam
Maybe yours is overly high.

Is Seton Hall really a destination job for a women's golf coach or men's swimming coach?

Really, unless the person is an alum or has some unusual connection, the answer is almost always going to be no.

I also don't think it's a Seton Hall issue. It's true for most non-revenue sports in this part of the country, especially at private schools.

Even Lyons left a job at his alma mater to further his career at another school. He didn't come here because it's his dream job, he did it to advance his career.
 
Maybe yours is overly high.

Is Seton Hall really a destination job for a women's golf coach or men's swimming coach?

Really, unless the person is an alum or has some unusual connection, the answer is almost always going to be no.

I also don't think it's a Seton Hall issue. It's true for most non-revenue sports in this part of the country, especially at private schools.

Even Lyons left a job at his alma mater to further his career at another school. He didn't come here because it's his dream job, he did it to advance his career.
If the salary you offer is significantly lower than what other schools offer, then it's not a destination job. You have to be competitive if you want to attract and to retain the best.

Look at coaches who have turned programs into champions and stayed for decades- Auriemma at UConn, Penn State women's volleyball, NC women's soccer. Would those coaches have stayed if the schools had not paid in accordance with accomplishment?

You often become are what your goals are. For example, St. John's baseball is frequently ranked, Apple was in the toilet until Steve Jobs returned, Hyundai cars were a joke and did a complete turnaround, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MBDuncan
Let's not forget that recruits choose the coach as much as the school, in many cases more.
 
Maybe yours is overly high.

Is Seton Hall really a destination job for a women's golf coach or men's swimming coach?

Really, unless the person is an alum or has some unusual connection, the answer is almost always going to be no.

I also don't think it's a Seton Hall issue. It's true for most non-revenue sports in this part of the country, especially at private schools.

Even Lyons left a job at his alma mater to further his career at another school. He didn't come here because it's his dream job, he did it to advance his career.
Seen interviewing at manhattan so...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pirate64
If the salary you offer is significantly lower than what other schools offer, then it's not a destination job. You have to be competitive if you want to attract and to retain the best.

Look at coaches who have turned programs into champions and stayed for decades- Auriemma at UConn, Penn State women's volleyball, NC women's soccer. Would those coaches have stayed if the schools had not paid in accordance with accomplishment?

You often become are what your goals are. For example, St. John's baseball is frequently ranked, Apple was in the toilet until Steve Jobs returned, Hyundai cars were a joke and did a complete turnaround, etc.
You want coaches to be paid more? Donate more. It's quite simple.
 
Maybe yours is overly high.

Is Seton Hall really a destination job for a women's golf coach or men's swimming coach?

Really, unless the person is an alum or has some unusual connection, the answer is almost always going to be no.

I also don't think it's a Seton Hall issue. It's true for most non-revenue sports in this part of the country, especially at private schools.

Even Lyons left a job at his alma mater to further his career at another school. He didn't come here because it's his dream job, he did it to advance his career.
Bingo.
 
Or maybe they just want to advance their careers.

I'm surprised the golf coached stayed as long as she did. Nothing wrong with someone seeking a new challenge in a different part of the country, especially if they have no ties to this area.
A golf coach moving to a west coast school doesn't seem all that odd. Id imagine that schoils in that area draw much higher interest than east coast school. As for swimming, it wasn't exactly his choice to move on so let's not fret too much about that one.
 
If these complacent and fatalistic responses reflect the Seton Hall way of thinking then the general state of mediocrity for the last few decades makes sense.

Donate money to leadership with that mentality?
 
If these complacent and fatalistic responses reflect the Seton Hall way of thinking then the general state of mediocrity for the last few decades makes sense.

Donate money to leadership with that mentality?
Have you ever looked at an athletic department budget? How about a budget for a non-revenue sport at a tiny private school where not even reaching $3 million in fundraising is seen as a success? You cite Penn State, where one student-run event raises $10 million in a single weekend.

Unless our fundraising goes through the roof all of a sudden, losing a great coach like Sara Doell is a reality that we're going to have to deal with. She was the perfect fit for our program (her first head coaching job and starting a program from scratch), but her career has grown beyond what we can offer her. It's a fact, not a mentality. Seton Hall can't pay her with money that it doesn't have.

The only job close to a destination job in our athletic department is the men's basketball job and even that has been used as a stepping stone multiple times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lloyde dobler
So many complain but so few give.

That played out a few weeks ago with our matching donor day. The school reached out via email and phone calls to alums all over the country. And this site worked all day to make every readers we had aware of the event and even with a $50,000.00 matching gift from an anonymous donor and Kevin Willard matching donations at 30% we couldn't raise $200,000.00.

Makes me wonder how many who complain reached into their pockets that day (actually weekend as the event was extended) to help the cause?
 
Maybe yours is overly high.

Is Seton Hall really a destination job for a women's golf coach or men's swimming coach?

Really, unless the person is an alum or has some unusual connection, the answer is almost always going to be no.

I also don't think it's a Seton Hall issue. It's true for most non-revenue sports in this part of the country, especially at private schools.

Even Lyons left a job at his alma mater to further his career at another school. He didn't come here because it's his dream job, he did it to advance his career.

You nailed it. I'm actually surprised we never hear anything about Shep even interviewing for other jobs. Maybe he's content with staying local, not picking up his family and moving, and the job security he has here. However the guy has been incredibly consistent since 2010. I'm sure Seton Hall is not any baseball coaches dream job. I would assume most want to be in the ACC, SEC, Big 12, or Pac 12.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pirate6711
So many complain but so few give.

That played out a few weeks ago with our matching donor day. The school reached out via email and phone calls to alums all over the country. And this site worked all day to make every readers we had aware of the event and even with a $50,000.00 matching gift from an anonymous donor and Kevin Willard matching donations at 30% we couldn't raise $200,000.00.

Makes me wonder how many who complain reached into their pockets that day (actually weekend as the event was extended) to help the cause?
Couldn't have said it any better.
 
The question of giving to raise money for athletics is like the old question of " Which came first the chicken or the egg ". Certainly athletic success is normally followed by increased giving to support your school's athletic programs but that hasn't happened although we did see a bump following our BET championship. Right now there is great uncertainty about our next president and his or her's commitment to athletics and I believe that is playing into the overall fund raising efforts of the school.
 
Just a convenient group of excuses. Similar to those who justify not going to games for various reasons.

We are in a ten team league now of similar schools. In the past we were in the best collection of schools in the history of college basketball.

There is one common denominator. Both times our school, Seton Hall, trailed every other league member in alumni donations.
 
You nailed it. I'm actually surprised we never hear anything about Shep even interviewing for other jobs. Maybe he's content with staying local, not picking up his family and moving, and the job security he has here. However the guy has been incredibly consistent since 2010. I'm sure Seton Hall is not any baseball coaches dream job. I would assume most want to be in the ACC, SEC, Big 12, or Pac 12.

Why would any school want to hire Shep away from Seton Hall? The baseball barely makes the conference tournament in a bad conference. Outside of two lucky Big East Tournament wins and 2012 and 2013 Shep has been mediocre at best in 16 years as coach. He has 6 winning season, 8 losing seasons with 3 winning seasons coming in the new conference where the baseball is significantly worse
 
Why would any school want to hire Shep away from Seton Hall? The baseball barely makes the conference tournament in a bad conference. Outside of two lucky Big East Tournament wins and 2012 and 2013 Shep has been mediocre at best in 16 years as coach. He has 6 winning season, 8 losing seasons with 3 winning seasons coming in the new conference where the baseball is significantly worse

All 8 of his 8 losings seasons occurred before they changed the rules on the bats to BBCOR. The game is much different now. Games in Omaha used to 16-14. Now you see 5-8 runs combined by the 2 teams. It's a huge difference. It's almost as significant as the one and done entering college basketball. Complete game changer. Nobody is playing for the 3-run homer. And what Shep has done since has been very good. 0 losing seasons. Not to mention he's had 34 wins in every season except for 1 since they changed the bat rules.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SHUisNJsTeam
So many complain but so few give.

That played out a few weeks ago with our matching donor day. The school reached out via email and phone calls to alums all over the country. And this site worked all day to make every readers we had aware of the event and even with a $50,000.00 matching gift from an anonymous donor and Kevin Willard matching donations at 30% we couldn't raise $200,000.00.

Makes me wonder how many who complain reached into their pockets that day (actually weekend as the event was extended) to help the cause?
Not a good message to motivate an alumni pool who graduate with a huge amount of debt.

"Send us money and we'll think about improving. Let's go. Pony up or stop complaining."

How about if they show a commitment/investment in human resources, build a winner and donations will follow.

You're going to tell me they didn't have an extra $100,000 per year total to sweeten the pot for a soccer coach and Doell? The university can certainly step in and target/invest in one or two non-basketball programs.

We're not talking about millions.

At least basketball appears to be on the upswing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: deheremike
Not a good message to motivate an alumni pool who graduate with a huge amount of debt.

"Send us money and we'll think about improving. Let's go. Pony up or stop complaining."

How about if they show a commitment/investment in human resources, build a winner and donations will follow.

You're going to tell me they didn't have an extra $100,000 per year total to sweeten the pot for a soccer coach and Doell? The university can certainly step in and target/invest in one or two non-basketball programs.

We're not talking about millions.

At least basketball appears to be on the upswing.
Ok, so you think it is unreasonable for this extra money to come from donations. Then where will that money come from? The athletic department already gets a nice chunk from the general fund as well as student fees. Should we start taking money from academics to pay a little bit more for a women's golf coach? Do you want Kevin Willard to take a pay cut?

If you can explain where all this extra money will come from without an increase in donations, then you will solve all of the athletic department's financial needs.
 
400, are you aware that a school like Providence annually DOUBLES what Seton Hall gets in donations?

Given the paltry alumni giving, $100,000 does seem like a lot of money. It's not like there are pots of gold buried around campus.

Second of all, the chance to coach a team on the west coast in the Bay Area seems like a great opportunity for a golf coach. Maybe, just maybe, she wanted to seize it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pirate6711
Ok, so you think it is unreasonable for this extra money to come from donations. Then where will that money come from? The athletic department already gets a nice chunk from the general fund as well as student fees. Should we start taking money from academics to pay a little bit more for a women's golf coach? Do you want Kevin Willard to take a pay cut?

If you can explain where all this extra money will come from without an increase in donations, then you will solve all of the athletic department's financial needs.

Seton Hall like every business in the world can cut waste and grow sales. Here's one example. FILL THE ROCK. We lose money every time a seat is empty. Find a way to fill it. $3 tickets for some of the local Catholic schools. There's about 5 non conference games a year that have 4,000 empty seats. That's an additional $60,000 if you can fill those seats at $3 each. Maybe, just maybe, those people will have a good time and buy tickets to another game later in the season. And that's just 1 small area. Be creative.
 
  • Like
Reactions: deheremike
The problem with that idea -- and I'm not blasting it -- is that you already have season ticket holders who've already paid $50 or so for those games who aren't showing even though they've bought tickets. So even if you offer group tix like that, you're not automatically going to find takers. Again, not a bad idea, but just not as clear cut as it sounds.
 
The problem with that idea -- and I'm not blasting it -- is that you already have season ticket holders who've already paid $50 or so for those games who aren't showing even though they've bought tickets. So even if you offer group tix like that, you're not automatically going to find takers. Again, not a bad idea, but just not as clear cut as it sounds.
That was just an example of one thing you can do. My point was be creative. Have a 90's night. Everyone who graduated SHU in the 90s can get 4 - $5 tickets. Same thing with the 80's. Come up with 1,000 other ideas to get those seats filled. The point was more about the fact that there are inefficiencies where money can be made. Fix it. Nobody will care how it got fixed if it gets fixed.
 
That was just an example of one thing you can do. My point was be creative. Have a 90's night. Everyone who graduated SHU in the 90s can get 4 - $5 tickets. Same thing with the 80's. Come up with 1,000 other ideas to get those seats filled.

Absolutely
 
All 8 of his 8 losings seasons occurred before they changed the rules on the bats to BBCOR. The game is much different now. Games in Omaha used to 16-14. Now you see 5-8 runs combined by the 2 teams. It's a huge difference. It's almost as significant as the one and done entering college basketball. Complete game changer. Nobody is playing for the 3-run homer. And what Shep has done since has been very good. 0 losing seasons. Not to mention he's had 34 wins in every season except for 1 since they changed the bat rules.

You bring up an interesting point with the BBCOR bats but I'm not sure that's the difference in success. 2011 it took winning the last series to even qualify for the tournament. 2012 and 2013 were the best teams and evident by multiple players drafted and fairly high too but don't have the same level of talent since. Seton Hall's record since 2013 is inflated by not having to face Louisville, Notre Dame and South Florida. Outside of Creighton and St. John's the new conference offers no strong competition and Seton Hall has been clearly behind both.
 
You bring up an interesting point with the BBCOR bats but I'm not sure that's the difference in success. 2011 it took winning the last series to even qualify for the tournament. 2012 and 2013 were the best teams and evident by multiple players drafted and fairly high too but don't have the same level of talent since. Seton Hall's record since 2013 is inflated by not having to face Louisville, Notre Dame and South Florida. Outside of Creighton and St. John's the new conference offers no strong competition and Seton Hall has been clearly behind both.

Oh I believe that has a ton to do with the success. I'm not sure if there has been such significant change to the way a game is played in college athletics since adding the 3 point line. It really evens the playing field.
 
So many complain but so few give.

That played out a few weeks ago with our matching donor day. The school reached out via email and phone calls to alums all over the country. And this site worked all day to make every readers we had aware of the event and even with a $50,000.00 matching gift from an anonymous donor and Kevin Willard matching donations at 30% we couldn't raise $200,000.00.

Makes me wonder how many who complain reached into their pockets that day (actually weekend as the event was extended) to help the cause?
I posted the following after the failed Donor Matching Day (and, yes, in my eyes this was a failure even though the minimum goals were met):

Not breaking last year's record for amount of money raised as well as donors is not a success but a failure. There is no reason both of those numbers were not increased and looks like poor planning and marketing. As soon as they said they were extending the donor matching I knew they didn't break any records. I spoke to a friend who dropped off their check in person. Instead of the usual setup in Walsh, which made it more of an event, they were setup in a conference room but no one seemed to even be manning that area. This year they seemed to sort of mail it in instead of giving more effort as in previous years which is sad. I spoke with another friend who had spoken to someone at SHU who said they'd just be happy to break 200k, it didn't seem there was even a goal to break last year's amount! Some here are big fans of the individual who said this (it was not Lyons). That attitude needs to change!

The 50 state challenge should remain, there is no reason why we can't do that. Still, they need to build on it. Call all of the donors from last year, ask them to up their donation by $10-25 bucks, ask them to each get one person who didn't donate last year to donate this year. Call your season ticket holders, there are a hell of a lot more than 350! Put the effort in and you'll get the donations and then some! Don't just coast by and be happy with less than status quo!

Ok, now back to today...another friend told me years ago that the person who would just be happy to break 2k told him 'we can't do too much because the more we do, the more people will expect'. Apparently this individual hasn't changed his thinking and is happy to sail along with status quo. That is inexcusable, especially since this guy is also an alum.

I sent in a donation on DMD, I do every year, but did it online. I received a postcard a few days before but never a phone call.

Thing is, Pirate Blue needs to do more outreach. People here stick their nose up to the idea of football but football gives you something other sports don't or gives it at a greater level. That thing is tailgating which is a huge networking opportunity, not just for students, alums and fans but also for senior administrators to get to know, educate and share their goals with students, fans and alums. We don't need 1A football, 1AA would be just fine.

The thing Pirate Blue and Athletics seems to miss the point on is that things like the Beefsteak and Hall of Fame Dinner are great but those people are already hooked and are giving, usually large amounts. You absolutely need those events because you have to keep those people happy and donating. The thing they miss is hooking the casual fan. What are they doing to engage them? Football would certainly help but until such time as that happens they need to think of something else. Why don't they allow and encourage tailgating for baseball, softball and men's and women's soccer? What about some sort of pre-game dining or sports bar type of set up before women's basketball games and maybe volleyball? Have social opportunities available to the common fan who maybe can't afford to donate thousands of dollars (or who knows, maybe they can?) but if they had the opportunity to learn about what was going on as well as the hopes and dreams for the future maybe they'd go from casual fan to season ticket holder or faithful fan who never misses a contest and starts adding Seton Hall Athletics to their list of places the annually make donations to? You need to grow your fanbase and donor base. You can't keep talking to the same people and expect them to spread your message!

Also, make games like softball, baseball, soccer events! Look at what the minor league teams do. Would it kill them to add bathrooms, concession stands and fan stands? That is bare bones minimum that should be done and is long overdue!

If continues to make me scratch my head when Seton Hall athletic admins say we should never reinstate football but then they leave for schools that sponsor it. Meanwhile the guy who is happy with status quo and minimum effort is the guy some would like to see one day become our AD. God help us.

Maybe in your year end interview with Pat Lyons you can bring up some of these points and ask him about them.
 
You nailed it. I'm actually surprised we never hear anything about Shep even interviewing for other jobs. Maybe he's content with staying local, not picking up his family and moving, and the job security he has here. However the guy has been incredibly consistent since 2010. I'm sure Seton Hall is not any baseball coaches dream job. I would assume most want to be in the ACC, SEC, Big 12, or Pac 12.
Or maybe for Shep, like Coach Bozzella, Seton Hall is their dream job! That's the way it should be, we should be a destination not a rest stop on the way to somewhere else!
 
Just a convenient group of excuses. Similar to those who justify not going to games for various reasons.

We are in a ten team league now of similar schools. In the past we were in the best collection of schools in the history of college basketball.

There is one common denominator. Both times our school, Seton Hall, trailed every other league member in alumni donations.
Alumni relations is another area where we need to see folks step up a lot more. Another status quo guy seems to be in charge there too. You can't keep hanging out with and asking the same people for money and expect to grow your sphere of influence and grow your coffers!
 
Or maybe for Shep, like Coach Bozzella, Seton Hall is their dream job! That's the way it should be, we should be a destination not a rest stop on the way to somewhere else!

I hope you are correct. I would love to see another trip to the CWS at some point and then him turn down places like Florida, Miami, Arizona State even though they offer a much higher salary and better weather.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SHUisNJsTeam
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT