Woodward Book

[shu09]

Very concerning stuff regarding this. In any other presidency, what we know of that's in the book (so far) would constitute an unprecedented crisis. I fear the day to day nonsense has desensitized people to the point where they brush stuff like this off when they really shouldn't.

Now Trump is out discrediting Woodward and getting his people to issue statements as well. Who do you believe, Bob Woodward or Donald Trump? For me, that's an easy question. I find it hard to believe that Mattis, Kelly, etc would all be lying or that Woodward would make up stories. It's troubling that Mattis and Kelly issued statements denying what they're reported to have said and bashing Woodward at the same time. Did Trump force them to do this? Even if he did, why would they consent?

 

[cernjSHU]

Very concerning stuff regarding this. In any other presidency, what we know of that's in the book (so far) would constitute an unprecedented crisis. I fear the day to day nonsense has desensitized people to the point where they brush stuff like this off when they really shouldn't.

Now Trump is out discrediting Woodward and getting his people to issue statements as well. Who do you believe, Bob Woodward or Donald Trump? For me, that's an easy question. I find it hard to believe that Mattis, Kelly, etc would all be lying or that Woodward would make up stories. It's troubling that Mattis and Kelly issued statements denying what they're reported to have said and bashing Woodward at the same time. Did Trump force them to do this? Even if he did, why would they consent?

I don't blame Mattis and Kelly for denying making those statements. What are they going to do admit to calling the President an idiot? My view has been that there are certain people in the WH like Mattis and Kelly who are there to bring some order and restraint to Trump. Remember Tillerson, the Secretary of State who did not deny that he called Trump an idiot. He is not working there anymore. Left alone or just surrounded by sycophants, Trump would get us into serious trouble. There is no telling what he would do.

 

[Section112]

Not sure who to believe but I know one thing, when the adults that include Mattis and Kelly leave the White House I will not be happy.

 

[SPK145]

It's one thing to not believe Wulff and Omarosa but Woodward is another story, he has earned much respect over the years from me. Very interesting.

 

[Merge]

My view has been that there are certain people in the WH like Mattis and Kelly who are there to bring some order and restraint to Trump.

That is how I see it as well. They are there because they feel it is their duty to protect against a catastrophe.

 

[HALL85]

It's one thing to not believe Wulff and Omarosa but Woodward is another story, he has earned much respect over the years from me. Very interesting.

I saw Woodward speak at a meeting several years ago and came away very impressed with his views on the trends in the MSM (in addition to his overall credibility).

Is anyone really surprised that a guy who had zero experience as a politician, an enormous ego and morally corrupt would act this way? The more important question is, does the electorate learn from 2016 Trump/Clinton shit-show and nominate candidates that have real leadership skills in 2020?

 

[Section112]

I saw Woodward speak at a meeting several years ago and came away very impressed with his views on the trends in the MSM (in addition to his overall credibility).

Is anyone really surprised that a guy who had zero experience as a politician, an enormous ego and morally corrupt would act this way? The more important question is, does the electorate learn from 2016 Trump/Clinton shit-show and nominate candidates that have real leadership skills in 2020?

I really hope that the parties learn from this and the electorate. The parties keep putting up terrible candidates and the electorate ends up with few if any good choices. Not sure what comes first the horses ass or the horses ass and which ass do you vote for.

 

[Merge]

My view has been that there are certain people in the WH like Mattis and Kelly who are there to bring some order and restraint to Trump.

I wonder which one of them wrote this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

Pretty damming.

 

[HALL85]

I wonder which one of them wrote this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

Pretty damming.

This doesn’t ring true to me. If there is a senior official that has a reputation (like Mattis or Kelly), then why not go public if you are truly concerned about how bad Trump is. “The country is in danger, but my job is more important”...meh

And, If it’s senior official like DeVos, I think our views would be much different.

 

[Merge]

This doesn’t ring true to me. If there is a senior official that has a reputation (like Mattis or Kelly), then why not go public if you are truly concerned about how bad Trump is. “The country is in danger, but my job is more important”...meh

And, If it’s senior official like DeVos, I think our views would be much different.

Was kidding. I don’t think it was either of them.

Not sure if we will learn who it was but I do think the courageous thing to do would have been to quit along with this op ed and your name attached to it.

It’s damming against Trump, but how is this helping the country?

 

[knowknow456]

Employees manage their bosses all the time. It isn't uncommon.

 

[Section112]

It's probably Jared - torn between his Democratic ideals and his hot wife.

 

[HALL85]

It’s damming against Trump, but how is this helping the country?

That's the thing that makes no sense...if this "source" truly wants to initiate change, this doesn't move the needle.

I just find the timing conspicuous. Right after the Woodward book drops; in the middle of the Kavanagh confirmation and two months before the mid-terms. Call my cynical.
And lost in all of this nonsense is Kim meeting with SK in two weeks to discuss total denuclearization.

From AP:
Kim made it clear that his "trust in Trump remains unchanged" despite the difficulties, Chung said, and expressed his "intention to work closely with the US" and "achieve the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula in the first official term of President Trump."

 

[knowknow456]

It’s damming against Trump, but how is this helping the country?

Employees often do things that are not in the best interest of the company. It's not uncommon.

 

[HALL85]

Just a hunch, but have the feeling something is going to drop next month and Sessions is going to be smack in the middle of it....

 

[shuvrp]

Many claim the coverage of Trump is unfair or biased. This is partially true because discussion of Trump has little to do with his policy decisions like past presidents. Coverage of Trump has become an exposition of narcissism, a spectacle of crude human impulse carried out by the most powerful political actor in the US. This type of spectacle belongs on a reality TV show and most journalists are doing their best to warn us.

Funny how you can't yell "Fake News!" like a scared child when its Bob Woodward.

 

[Pirate19001]

Many claim the coverage of Trump is unfair or biased. This is partially true because discussion of Trump has little to do with his policy decisions like past presidents. Coverage of Trump has become an exposition of narcissism, a spectacle of crude human impulse carried out by the most powerful political actor in the US. This type of spectacle belongs on a reality TV show and most journalists are doing their best to warn us.

Perfect example this morning. Trump claiming the independent death toll in Puerto Rico is false. Stating 3,000 people did not die and was all made up by Democrats to make him look bad.

I mean this is ridiculous. Imagine the pain and anger one would feel if your family member was lost in the hurricane. This is Alex Jones Sandy Hook denial level crazy, all stated without evidence.

Yet immediately after I post this we will have someone chime in about the MSM's Trump Derangement Syndrome or some BS about the "real" problem being how we let the candidates get this way.

 

[knowknow456]

Yet immediately after I post this we will have someone chime in about the MSM's Trump Derangement Syndrome or some BS about the "real" problem being how we let the candidates get this way.

I must defend the honor of Hall85 who you are namelessly disparaging. He is a first class SuperTrumper and a heck of a nice guy. He just can't help himself.

 

[HALL85]

I must defend the honor of Hall85 who you are namelessly disparaging. He is a first class SuperTrumper and a heck of a nice guy. He just can't help himself.

I see you still wake up being a douche everyday. Congrats.

 

[shuvrp]

Perfect example this morning. Trump claiming the independent death toll in Puerto Rico is false. Stating 3,000 people did not die and was all made up by Democrats to make him look bad.

I mean this is ridiculous. Imagine the pain and anger one would feel if your family member was lost in the hurricane. This is Alex Jones Sandy Hook denial level crazy, all stated without evidence.

Yet immediately after I post this we will have someone chime in about the MSM's Trump Derangement Syndrome or some BS about the "real" problem being how we let the candidates get this way.

The way in which he lies without care, sends his minions out to obfuscate his lies and then have everyone argue over the lies that are now obfuscated is absurd. Once everyone realizes the President is a liar on a certain topic he creates a new lie and the cycle repeats itself.

If I could just detach myself from caring about the future it would actually be marvelous to observe.

 

[Section112]

Perfect example this morning. Trump claiming the independent death toll in Puerto Rico is false. Stating 3,000 people did not die and was all made up by Democrats to make him look bad.

I mean this is ridiculous. Imagine the pain and anger one would feel if your family member was lost in the hurricane. This is Alex Jones Sandy Hook denial level crazy, all stated without evidence.

Yet immediately after I post this we will have someone chime in about the MSM's Trump Derangement Syndrome or some BS about the "real" problem being how we let the candidates get this way.

Your first two paragraphs are spot on and I agree. Your last paragraph is not necessary to having a real debate and is just stirring the pot which is the same kind of behavior you are complaining about with Trump. Then your buddy knowknow takes the debate even lower - just not necessary IMO.

 

[knowknow456]

Then your buddy knowknow takes the debate even lower - just not necessary IMO.

Did I take the debate lower? Perhaps, but I don't apologize for saying nice things. If he chooses to interpret them negatively, that's his issue.

More to your point - I find it tiresome to listen to Democrats talk about how terrible President Trump is and that he should be impeached. He is a terrible President, but we elected him and life is tough. However, until Republicans are willing to admit Donald Trump is not a good President AND not a good Republican, the debate will go on day after day for the next six years. An overwhelming amount of Republicans are not willing do so, at least not yet.

 

[Merge]

Your first two paragraphs are spot on and I agree. Your last paragraph is not necessary to having a real debate and is just stirring the pot which is the same kind of behavior you are complaining about with Trump. Then you buddy knowknow takes the debate even lower - just not necessary IMO. Give respect and you get respect.

Through some of our criticisms of Trump, a few of us have been labeled as having Trump derangement syndrome by a couple posters here (not you)

Though, I don't recall anyone here sticking up for us at the time to keep the debate on topic then... just sayin.

 

[Section112]

Through some of our criticisms of Trump, a few of us have been labeled as having Trump derangement syndrome by a couple posters here (not you)

Though, I don't recall anyone here sticking up for us at the time to keep the debate on topic then... just sayin.

You can stick up for yourself. Just to clear I'm not a fan of Trump. I do like some of the things he has gotten done like tax reform and going after some of our less than fair trade partners (jury is out on that one though) and taking the handcuffs off the military overseas and letting them do their job. I cannot stand his tweets and mean approach at all and don't like him surrounding himself with lowlifes like Bannon. With that said this is what we have for the next few years and the whining is getting old - focus on the real issues not his dumb tweets - noone seems to want to do that instead they complain about his tweets because they are mean spirited and then they get mean spirited as well - kind of silly right.

 

[HALL85]

You can stick up for yourself. Just to clear I'm not a fan of Trump. I do like some of the things he has gotten done like tax reform and going after some of our less than fair trade partners (jury is out on that one though) and taking the handcuffs off the military overseas and letting them do their job. I cannot stand his tweets and mean approach at all and don't like him surrounding himself with lowlifes like Bannon. With that said this is what we have for the next few years and the whining is getting old - focus on the real issues not his dumb tweets - noone seems to want to do that instead they complain about his tweets because they are mean spirited and then they get mean spirited as well - kind of silly right.

You’re really too objective and level-headed posting stuff like that. Great post!

 

[knowknow456]

I do like some of the things he has gotten done

With all due respect, we have a Republican controlled Senate and House of Representatives so any number of Republicans would have accomplished good Republican things as President. With that said, President Trump is only about tweets and mean approach and surrounding himself with lowlifes like Bannon. There is nothing else to discuss; yet Republicans are not willing to admit Donald Trump is not a good President AND not a good Republican.

 

[Section112]

.

 

[knowknow456]

.

I'm not sure I agree but at least you came right to the point.

 

[Section112]

You just confirmed Hall85's prior post. Not gonna answer you in the future because you don't want to have a reasonable debate you just want to be nasty and make stupid comments. Don't kick your dog today he doesn't deserve it.

 

[knowknow456]

You just confirmed Hall85's prior post. Not gonna answer you in the future because you don't want to have a reasonable debate you just want to be nasty and make stupid comments. Don't kick your dog today he doesn't deserve it.

If you think a "." was an answer I would like to inform you that you weren't answering me in the present either. My point remains the same -

With all due respect, we have a Republican controlled Senate and House of Representatives so any number of Republicans would have accomplished good Republican things as President. With that said, President Trump is only about tweets and mean approach and surrounding himself with lowlifes like Bannon. There is nothing else to discuss; yet Republicans are not willing to admit Donald Trump is not a good President AND not a good Republican.

 

[Section112]

You pose no question for debate. You make a statement. I'm not a Republican so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say to your post. You obviously have no intention of debating anything reasonably so I decided I'm not gonna debate this person anymore. I could give a crap what you think as well because you have shown your true colors on this board. I'd prefer to debate a guy like Merge who tries to debate and poses questions and seems reasonable. You my friend are none of those.

 

[JimmyCryan]

... or some BS about the "real" problem being how we let the candidates get this way.

Trump is an imbecile, but his Presidency is unquestionably a product of the society we live in, divided and largely unreasonable. Oh, and there was that unbelievably bad candidate he ran against.

 

[knowknow456]

You pose no question for debate. You make a statement. I'm not a Republican so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say to your post. You obviously have no intention of debating anything reasonably so I decided I'm not gonna debate this person anymore. I could give a crap what you think as well because you have shown your true colors on this board. I'd prefer to debate a guy like Merge who tries to debate and poses questions and seems reasonable. You my friend are none of those.

For a guy who chastised me for taking the debate lower, you seem to be able to get down to that level pretty easily yourself. And trolling me with "." when you weren't sure what you were supposed to say to my post was a nice touch. In spite of all that, I still like you but I don't agree with you when you say President Trump has gotten things done. Any Republican accomplishments were achieved almost in spite of him. Republican voters have decided to take the good and the bad with President Trump because they believe the alternative (Democrats!) would be worse. I do not see that mindset changing any time soon. Would you agree?

 

[HALL85]

For a guy who chastised me for taking the debate lower, you seem to be able to get down to that level pretty easily yourself. And trolling me with "." when you weren't sure what you were supposed to say to my post was a nice touch. In spite of all that, I still like you but I don't agree with you when you say President Trump has gotten things done. Any Republican accomplishments were achieved almost in spite of him. Republican voters have decided to take the good and the bad with President Trump because they believe the alternative (Democrats!) would be worse. I do not see that mindset changing any time soon. Would you agree?

We had a choice of two horrible candidates in 2016 and a good proportion of the electorate voted for one solely because they despised the other so much.
We have two parties that are fractured and lost touch with reality and how to communicate with their constituents. There are no longer platforms that most from either party line up behind.

Disagree that any Republican candidate would have done what Trump has (and for the record, I share 112's perspective). The cuts in regulations (whether you agree or disagree with them) were done by executive order or by cabinet members of his choosing. Many other actions he put in place even with resistance from his own party.

I'm going to take a somewhat cautiously optimistic view of the future. If anything, Trump woke up an electorate that was not challenging or engaged in the process. Look at how many women are running for office in the midterms...record breaking. I think Millennial's are more involved and knowledgeable and recognize how broken the process is. Maybe we'll start seeing some fresh new candidates rather than those in their 70's. I do worry about the effect social media has had on creating more barriers for real and meaningful discussion.

 

[Merge]

I'm going to take a somewhat cautiously optimistic view of the future. If anything, Trump woke up an electorate that was not challenging or engaged in the process. Look at how many women are running for office in the midterms...record breaking. I think Millennial's are more involved and knowledgeable and recognize how broken the process is. Maybe we'll start seeing some fresh new candidates rather than those in their 70's. I do worry about the effect social media has had on creating more barriers for real and meaningful discussion.

Agree with that and you are right, social media has created Bubbles where people isolate themselves from opposing viewpoints. Media has been doing that for a while but it's definitely worse on the internet now.