OT: Tom Coughlin

[Piratz]

Adam Schefter of ESPN believes McAdoo the favorite for Eagles job. I think McAdoo could mature into a good coach in time, but needs more seasoning. Would've liked that to happen on the Giants' staff considering they devoted two years to him, but that wasn't going to be the case once they blew out Coughlin.

Now starting to look like wholesale changes, which is better at this point. That’s been my contention with them since the odd pressers last week. You want to change? Fine. They’ve sat through 3 consecutive losing seasons. It’s certainly reasonable. But then CHANGE. Refresh. Reset. Don’t indirectly pin this on the coach who won you two Super Bowls in the past 8 years and make it look like he just got too old to manage the sideline and game situations when in actuality he coached up your incomplete roster. That’s low brow, weak stuff.

They need a full change. Personnel, coaching, everything.

 

[hallgrad80]

I'm thinking Mike Smith is probably my preferred candidate. I actually like Spags too ahead of McAdoo, but do not see why a coordinator would be elevated if you're making a clean sweep.

Other then ODB the Giant's biggest asset is Eli and with the window with him being able to lead this team to the playoffs starting to close as he's probably on his last contract with the Giants , keeping him happy means getting in a head coach that's offensively minded and runs an offensive that plays to his strength and Mcadoo fits that profile.

 

[Piratz]

Other then ODB the Giant's biggest asset is Eli and with the window with him being able to lead this team to the playoffs starting to close as he's probably on his last contract with the Giants , keeping him happy means getting in a head coach that's offensively minded and runs an offensive that plays to his strength and Mcadoo fits that profile.

Then they should've just left everything as it was and rebuilt the defensive personnel this offseason and attempted another run with the status quo. That's actually what I would've done, but I understand why they want to change, just find it confusing how they have gone about it thus far. To think there was a possibility that the only change would've been the coach would've been ridiculous, IMO.

 

[Piratz]

Hue Jackson to the Browns.

 

[hallgrad80]

Then they should've just left everything as it was and rebuilt the defensive personnel this offseason and attempted another run with the status quo. That's actually what I would've done, but I understand why they want to change, just find it confusing how they have gone about it thus far. To think there was a possibility that the only change would've been the coach would've been ridiculous, IMO.

When you change a head coach you better make sure he's better then the coach you decided to replace and so far I can't say that about any of the candidates still being considered by the Giants. Whichever way the Giants go they better make a decision quickly as assistant coaches are signing with other teams and the Giant's LB coach just signed with the Colts .

 

[hbkmyr]

Hue Jackson is going to Cleveland. Cross him off the list.

The whole thing has become a mess. More and more looks like TC was fired for the sake of being fired. Who knows where they're going? Are they waiting for a Saban or McDaniels?

 

[Burnsly]

The Eagles are just trying to get the Giants to over-react & hire McAdoo. He's not ready yet.
I'm really relieved the Browns hired Hugh Jackson.

 

[Piratz]

When you change a head coach you better make sure he's better then the coach you decided to replace and so far I can't say that about any of the candidates still being considered by the Giants. Whichever way the Giants go they better make a decision quickly as assistant coaches are signing with other teams and the Giant's LB coach just signed with the Colts .

Pat Flaherty also interviewed with the Colts and Vikings. He was Coughlin's OL coach for the entire 12 seasons and did an excellent job in developing the players that won the 2 Super Bowls and also the young guys on this year's team are showing progress.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

Hue Jackson is going to Cleveland. Cross him off the list.

The whole thing has become a mess. More and more looks like TC was fired for the sake of being fired. Who knows where they're going? Are they waiting for a Saban or McDaniels?

I think I would call Urban Meyer and see if he had any interest. I'm not usually high on these college coaches making the jump to the NFL but with these less than ideal candidates, I think I would consider it. I think I would take him over Saban.

 

[bd98]

It's become pretty clear that unless they somehow pull a Saban-type out of thin air the Giants have thoroughly botched this. Could be looking at many lean years ahead.

 

[Piratz]

Good read here. Toggle through the slideshow: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-can-fix-their-personnel-departments-results

 

[bd98]

It's McAdoo. Don't know why they even went through the motions of a supposed search. Whole thing was a sham designed to get to the end result they've wanted for two years.

 

[Piratz]

And Joe Philbin joining him, evidently.

 

[Piratz]

And Spags evidently staying.

 

[Jerry1992]

Eli must be ecstatic.

 

[hbkmyr]

As noted earlier in this thread, Once they kept Resse, all signs pointed to mcadoo.

 

[Piratz]

So they've lost credibility as an organization for 3 consecutive losing seasons, but literally do not bring in anyone new in the executive positions. Got it.

Strange handling.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Eli isn't ecstatic about anything. Sorry guys, I'm just not feeling it. I think this guy is a good QB
coach no more than that. I don't even think the Giants offense was that good. OBJ is the offense. An atrocious running game, Besides OBJ the offense like this hire is bland with a capital "B"

An under 40 year old's first job is the NYC Market? Giants dropped the ball. Coughlin needed to go after last year in retrospect. Some of this actually has elements of KW.

The Giants have to now bring in some real leaders into the lockeroom.

 

[its haLL baLL]

So let me get this straight, you fire Coughlin, keep the GM who built this terrible roster, promote the offensive coordinator, and retain the defensive coordinator - what exactly are they expecting to change moving forward? What a joke. They kept everything the same and fired the only leader in the entire organization. This franchise is headed for 5 more years of irrelevancy.

Coughlin has had a rough past few years. There is more than enough justification for moving on from him. What cannot be justified is making Coughlin the scapegoat for all of the team's problems, which is exactly what they've done.

They cut the head off of a rotting organization. Now all they're left with is the same rotting organization and no leader. These aren't the same Giants.

 

[bd98]

By all indications they panicked because they thought the Eagles were going to hire McAdoo. As if McAdoo was George Halas or something. If the Eagles want to take your completely unproven offensive coordinator who has done absolutely NOTHING to indicate he will be a good head coach let them do it. Now the Eagles are going to hire...Coughlin. Whoops.

 

[hallgrad80]

The strength of any organization is its leadership at the top and for the Giants there isn't one person in a key leadership position I can say I have confidence in.
1. John Mara - CEO and President. Has come across as weak and indecisive and keeping Reese and Ross proved that.
2. Jerry Reese GM. Along with his sidekick , Marc Ross , has demonstrated by every matrix there is that he doesn't have the skill to build a competitive roster.
3. Marc Ross - In charge of the draft and the results speak for themselves.
4. Ben McAdoo - Head Coach. Not ready yet and if this is the best the Giants could do its distressing. Of all the head coaching positions open the Giants job was considered the best opening and if McAdoo was the best they could do this franchise won't see the playoffs for a while.

 

[its haLL baLL]

The strength of any organization is its leadership at the top and for the Giants there isn't one person in a key leadership position I can say I have confidence in.
1. John Mara - CEO and President. Has come across as weak and indecisive and keeping Reese and Ross proved that.
2. Jerry Reese GM. Along with his sidekick , Marc Ross , has demonstrated by every matrix there is that he doesn't have the skill to build a competitive roster.
3. Marc Ross - In charge of the draft and the results speak for themselves.
4. Ben McAdoo - Head Coach. Not ready yet and if this is the best the Giants could do its distressing. Of all the head coaching positions open the Giants job was considered the best opening and if McAdoo was the best they could do this franchise won't see the playoffs for a while.

There are no leaders anywhere in the organization. None in the owner's box, none in the front office, none on the sideline, and none on the field. I am probably overreacting, but I don't see the Giants being relevant under this current regime.

 

[hbkmyr]

There are no leaders anywhere in the organization. None in the owner's box, none in the front office, none on the sideline, and none on the field. I am probably overreacting, but I don't see the Giants being relevant under this current regime.

I don't think you're overreacting. This whole thing could bury the Giants for quite awhile.

 

[its haLL baLL]

 

[Piratz]

You have to get ready for a learning curve. Even if McAdoo turns out to be a good hire.

And in terms of Free Agency, do guys want to play for a 38-year old rookie HC or go somewhere more established? I don't know.

 

[Piratz]

As far as Coughlin goes, the Giants felt he was too old and cannot coach any longer. They are blaming him for the team finishing 6-10. You heard Reese last week.

That's going to drive him to burn them. I hope he is successful wherever he ends up - even if its in Philadelphia - because he gave a lot to the Giants franchise.

By the way, in any other profession are people discussing employees ages like this? LOL

 

[Section112]

As far as Coughlin goes, the Giants felt he was too old and cannot coach any longer. They are blaming him for the team finishing 6-10. You heard Reese last week.

That's going to drive him to burn them. I hope he is successful wherever he ends up - even if its in Philadelphia - because he gave a lot to the Giants franchise.

By the way, in any other profession are people discussing employees ages like this? LOL

He clearly has an age discrimination case here if you talk to a lawyer. If he can prove he was fired and they replaced him with a younger coach at a lower salary bingo!

The Giants have made themselves look so bad in this process its not even funny. They better hope McAdoo is a boy genius.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

He clearly has an age discrimination case here if you talk to a lawyer. If he can prove he was fired and they replaced him with a younger coach at a lower salary bingo!

The Giants have made themselves look so bad in this process its not even funny. They better hope McAdoo is a boy genius.

well he resigned was not fired/terminated or bought out and since there is still a year on his deal giants have to courtesy approve any interviews he has for head coaching candidacy

 

[Piratz]

I'm sure this "resignation vs. firing" was a mutual agreement.

You see this stuff in the NFL because nobody will ever litigate it. Not worth the time and they're all millionaires to begin with.

 

[Piratz]

The Giants have made themselves look so bad in this process its not even funny. They better hope McAdoo is a boy genius.

It's pretty disjointed from the start. Everything about it. The way they blamed the talent, then the kept the key talent evaluators. They put the GM on the hot seat then they hire a rookie HC.

Summed up well here: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...e=twitter.com&utm_campaign=RVacchiano+Twitter

 

[hallgrad80]

To show how bizarre this whole saga has played out , the most respected member of the Giants is the person they fired , Tom Coughlin.
1. No member of the Giants organization has lost more credibility then it's CEO John Mara and his fellow owner Steve Tisch hasn't been far behind.
2. The architects of the Giants seriously flawed roster kept their jobs , Messers Ross and Reese.
3. Considered the best job opening they hire as their head coach one of their own assistant coaches , with no head coaching experience and only two years of experience as a coordinator.
4. As many in the media have commented Reese had better improve this team's talent or he could be gone next year , leaving the Giant's with a new GM and a head coach he didn't hire with multiple years left on his contract. Not an ideal position to be in.
5. If the deal with McAdoo is finalized you have an offensive minded coach who is going to push hard to add talent on offense like a WR, a TE , at least two OL and maybe a RB when the biggest need is on defense and how the R&R boys allocate resources to offense and defense becomes very important. Remember Mara has publicly stated that the head coach has great input into the drafting/ free agent process and where there's a disagreement Mara resolves the dispute.

 

[Piratz]

Well, at least they won't have Old Man Coughlin to blame anymore.

 

[hbkmyr]

Should make for an interesting introductory press conference.

 

[Seton75]

I wonder how great we thought Tom was after the Dallas game, or the other losses that were close head scratchers. Tom should have been let go two years ago, with Reese, to allow a big enough window to build one last contender for Eli. It is sad, but teams pay a huge penalty for being loyal to older players or coaches. Re-signing Ewing ruined the Knicks for years.

Here is our thread after the first Dallas gamehttps://setonhall.forums.rivals.com/threads/ny-football-giants.7039/

 

[Burnsly]

Based on the end result it's clearly obvious that mgt. blamed Coughlin & only Coughlin for their recent failures.

 

[hbkmyr]

TC has pulled his name from consideration in Philly according to ESPN.

 

[Section112]

TC has pulled his name from consideration in Philly according to ESPN.

Smart as the place is screwed up. The new GM is a schmuck and Lurie is not a great owner. The NFC East group of owners are really quite an interesting bunch. Tom should figure out a way to consult with some of these franchises that need help like Cleveland and ride off into the sunset.

 

[hallgrad80]

I wonder how great we thought Tom was after the Dallas game, or the other losses that were close head scratchers. Tom should have been let go two years ago, with Reese, to allow a big enough window to build one last contender for Eli. It is sad, but teams pay a huge penalty for being loyal to older players or coaches. Re-signing Ewing ruined the Knicks for years.

Here is our thread after the first Dallas gamehttps://setonhall.forums.rivals.com/threads/ny-football-giants.7039/

What has changed from that first game in Dallas is that we have seen and come to recognize how flawed and weak the roster TC was given to win with and that has certainly changed the perception that the Giants lack of success was primarily the fault of TC when the general concensus now it's the fault of Reese and Ross. That doesn't mean that Tom and his OC haven't contributed to the results we saw this year and others.

 

[Piratz]

Very few organizations are good at this, no matter if it's private business or professional sports. I often think professional sports is more messy because the money erodes the usual checks and balances with HR, LOL.

What's happened to Coughlin is very similar to what happened to Torre with the Yankees. Torre had been there 11 years and management thought he was underachieving and mismanaging the team in the postseason. They too had "diminishing returns" in their view. They even offered Torre some ludicrous one-year contract offer with a paycut and financial incentives if he adanced by round in the playoffs. Torre was 67 at the time.

Many fans were torn. Many said the same things on this thread about how he handled the lineups in the playoff series, the pitching staffs, how his teams seemed to lack "juice," all kinds of stuff. Torre was pissed. Time passed. Wounds healed. Now he's hailed as the multi-champion all-timer he deserves to be and gets arguably the loudest ovation everytime he's at Yankee Stadium. As will Tom Coughlin. Deservedly so.

The Giants did not handle this well. Very few do unless it's amicable and mutually agreeable. Wasn't for Torre, wasn't for Coughlin.

You have to hope the Giants didn't hire the next Ray Handley.

 

[Piratz]

What has changed from that first game in Dallas is that we have seen and come to recognize how flawed and weak the roster TC was given to win with and that has certainly changed the perception that the Giants lack of success was primarily the fault of TC when the general concensus now it's the fault of Reese and Ross. That doesn't mean that Tom and his OC haven't contributed to the results we saw this year and others.

Bingo. This is the most concerning point. I don't know why Eli didn't take the sack in Dallas (like he later did against NE) or why he told Jennings not to score or why they didn't run the ball (audible?). I know why Tom tried to end the game on 4th and 2 to go up 17 instead of going up 13 against the Jets and I didn't agree with it. I know why he didn't bench OBJ against the Panthers for a series to calm him, he said so after the game and I didn't agree with it.

Those are the reasons he's not the coach. They allow a narrative to be painted that's not pretty. He made those decisions. But the Jedi Mind Trick here is that he's also the reason the team was up to the challenge and in position to blow those leads. They did not get enough execution and I blame that more than the coaching decisions.

What I do know if they think they're trending properly and now the biggest hurdle is gone and they can ascend from 19-29 over the past 3 seasons without changing anything else, they are fooling themselves. This is why they are 6-10:

Up 26-20 at Dallas, 1:29 left: Cowboys shred defense and go 80 yards to win without a timeout.
Up 20-17 vs. Atlanta, 3:12 left: Falcons shred defense for 70 yards to win without a timeout with the secondary beat on a bomb.
Up 26-24 vs. New England, 1:47 left: Patriots shred defense for 50 yards to win without a timeout. A 4th and 10, a dropped INT.
Up 20-13 vs. Jets, 2:47 left: Jets drive 70 yards to tie the game. NYG allows 227 yards in 16 game minutes to close that game.
Tied, 35-35 vs. Panthers, 1:40 left: Panthers drive 50 yards to win game

I'm not even going to get into the game they scored 49 points and lost (Saints), the game they scored 30 and lost (Eagles).

Why did this happen repeatedly and consistently? Why was the team ranked as the worst unit in the league? Bad coaching decisions? It's because you have guys that shouldn't be in the league on defense and literally cannot cover. You have zero pass rush to rise up and make a stand. It's a terrible constructed roster because one key unit is deficient.

Maybe an average defense makes a stop. Maybe an average defense makes those games a larger margin. Fix the defense.

And the offense was only 29th in the league in red zone. FG's instead of TD's gets you beat too.