Why are you ignoring the stats from the article? Why are our excess deaths so high? Why are our COVID deaths so high?
“Excess Deaths” from COVID
- Thread starter HALL85
- Start date
Covid deaths are high because we have an unhealthy population and many people did not understand the risk.
Excess deaths are high primarily because Covid deaths are underreported.
A
anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Why not just cite the article, it would take 2 seconds, instead of being a dick?
Merge is the master at the Search function….just giving him a chance to strut his stuff
Yes. For example…
Estimating under-recognized COVID-19 deaths, United States, march 2020-may 2021 using an excess mortality modelling approach
Estimating COVID-19–attributable unrecognized deaths provides a better understanding of the COVID-19 mortality burden and may better quantify the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic.
www.thelancet.com
True number of Covid deaths in the US probably undercounted, experts say | US news | The Guardian
Many of the deaths aren’t counted in the official Covid tally because they happen months after infections, expert says
I do know how to use the search function, unfortunately it doesn’t give the option to search for something that doesn’t exist.
No. 78% of Covid deaths were not obese people.
merge always has reciepts. this is one of countless times against the same people.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...death/65-81055733-139c-4ffa-b1f1-8413d375a7fb
My correction - COVID hospitalizations of OBESE but the number and the point is the same….79%
From the article…..Yes. For example…
Estimating under-recognized COVID-19 deaths, United States, march 2020-may 2021 using an excess mortality modelling approach
Estimating COVID-19–attributable unrecognized deaths provides a better understanding of the COVID-19 mortality burden and may better quantify the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic.www.thelancet.com
True number of Covid deaths in the US probably undercounted, experts say | US news | The Guardian
Many of the deaths aren’t counted in the official Covid tally because they happen months after infections, expert saysamp.theguardian.com
In addition to deaths from Covid-19, drug overdoses – already one of the leading causes of death for working-age adults – and homicides have also risen during the pandemic.
Insurers are also seeing a rise in disability claims – at first for short-term disability and now for long-term disability, because of both long Covid and delayed care for other illnesses, “because people haven’t been able to get the healthcare that they need because the hospitals are overrun”, Davison said. It’s a trend “consistent across every player in the business” of insurance.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32783686/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7690270/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...-closely-linked-in-new-study/?sh=454421bd643e
lol…maybe you should go back to posting non stop rants about Willard…
True number of Covid deaths in the US probably undercounted, experts say | US news | The Guardian
Many of the deaths aren’t counted in the official Covid tally because they happen months after infections, expert says
The title reads:
True number of Covid deaths in the US probably undercounted, experts say
"probably" and "experts say" are good enough for you but everyone else has to bring data?
Regardless, if you are saying the article has merit, it goes on to say.
"In addition to deaths from Covid-19, drug overdoses – already one of the leading causes of death for working-age adults – and homicides have also risen during the pandemic."
The author goes on further:
"Deaths from long Covid have been particularly difficult to track, because the virus may no longer be present at the time of death, but it weakened organs or created fatal new ailments."
It sounds like her theory is the drug overdose death occurred because they all had Covid at one time and their organs were weakened.
She has not data to support that claim. It's possible that was the cause but IMO not likely the primary cause.
Given you are now accepting "probably" as OK to support an argument, I'd consider a theory that proffers isolation, working from home, job loss, less exercise, etc. also contributed to deaths.
I can cite the owner of the largest beer distributor in PA who told me that during the pandemic, his commercial business cratered and his retail business increased more than the commercial decrease.
This is from Mass General Hospital. There are plenty y more article s on alcohol use,
"Alcohol consumption during the COVID-19 pandemic projected to cause more liver disease and deaths"
I do not think it is a stretch to link the increased drinking to the lockdowns. I do not think people just decided one day to drink more.
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Exactly. you were very wrong with your pretty emphatic “78% of fatalities were obese….not just overweight…obese. Nothing about cardio vascular disease or diabetes.”
I didn’t need to search for your source on that because I knew it was wrong.. in a post complaining about something that was "factually incorrect" nonetheless. Too funny.
Oh stop…
it doesn’t change the point I was making. People that are obese are in a much higher risk of Covid than children under five.
There is a link to a study and an article in my post. I brought data. You missed the link.
No, that is not her theory.
When you are talking about excess deaths being about 200k higher than Covid deaths and Overdose deaths going up by 20,000, she is talking about something else.
I understand why people would tend to want to tie drug overdoses to something related to the pandemic. You see a correlation and you stop there and think that must be causation... but we have had these discussions on this board previously. Drug overdoses start increasing in October 2019. 5 months prior to the pandemic hitting the US. Why would states with little to no Covid restrictions have a higher percentage change in overdose deaths compared to states with many restrictions?
What you found is a correlation, but when you look at the data on where and when these overdoses are occurring it is pretty clear that covid isolation / restrictions were not the cause. Just happens that these deaths start to increase after a massive increase in fentanyl imported into the US.
Yes, another discussion we have had on here previously.... and I noted then that Danny Brager, senior vice president of beverage alcohol at Nielsen: “Consumers are spending significantly less on alcohol because of the closures and restrictions to the on-premise space. People are just transferring their purchases, not buying more alcohol in total.”
If you want to disagree with him and say people ae drinking more and deaths from liver disease will increase by 8,000 by 2040... I won't really argue, but I can tell you with a good amount of certainty that those 8,000 over the next 18 years are not why excess deaths were up by 200,000 in 2020 and 2021.
We would need for data to support that 100%.
A martini costs $12-15 in a restaurant. You can by an entire bottle of Grey Goose for $30.
The same dollars at home buys much more alcohol.
In her article, I read "Excess Deaths" as any and all deaths in excess of the typical pre-pandemic death rate. that includes Covid and non-Covid deaths.
"Anderson noted that many elderly and frail people found themselves isolated because of precautions against viral spread. During the initial wave of infections, when the country largely shut down, the quality of care for the most vulnerable populations probably suffered, Anderson said. Deaths from Alzheimer's disease exceeded the expected total by 66,000 during the course of two years, he said.
"People with dementia, in isolation, they sometimes lose the will to live," Anderson said."
A causation, not THE causation. geesh!
Drug overdose deaths hit record high
More than 100,000 Americans died from drug overdoses between May 2020 and April 2021—the most ever recorded in a single year.
A crisis on top of a crisis: COVID-19 and the opioid epidemic
Michael Barnett, assistant professor of health policy and management at Harvard Chan School, discussed how the COVID-19 pandemic has posed challenges for people struggling with opioid use disorder.
You tell me.
You seem to be a one-trick pony with that one.
Did you look at cities within states?
Did you look at people migrating from restrictive states?
Did you look at states bordering each other, those who live in less restricted states but work in a restrictive state. Overdose occurs where they live but the cause was a work related restriction?
Did you look at less restrictive states having a greater stress on their healthcare systems which took care away from drug addicts?
Somethings are counter intuitive. There has been enough written from credible sources that suggest the pandemic had an impact on drug related deaths. They are not sayin it was the only impact. I don't understand why you can't accept that.
I guess thy should have checked with you before the published.
Like you said, "You see a correlation and you stop there and think that must be causation..."
Of course. The issue I have had is when people tie alcohol consumption to something the government imposed on them without consideration for the fact that a global pandemic killing hundreds of thousands of people and millions globally would normally be a stressful environment with or without government restrictions. Those who find comfort in alcohol would likely be doing the same thing regardless or any restrictions... and while it is also true that some people may turn to alcohol with a job loss, much of the job losses still happen without any restrictions because of the inherent economic uncertainty when millions of people around the world are dying from a pandemic. On the other end of that spectrum we would also have to consider those who ended up being better off financially because of the pandemic and those who found themselves with a better work life balance because of the work from home environment as well.
There is total excess and covid / non covid excess.
The first article here was referring to the non covid excess so that is the topic we have been discussing.
What I was referring to there was that she wasn't saying that all of the drug overdose deaths were really Covid deaths.
She was saying that there were many Covid deaths which were not attributed to Covid.
But we are talking about deaths not those who are better off. Shutting down the local shop and leaving the liquor store open? Another bad decision driving consumption up while shutting down access to substance abuse assistance. There are unintended consequences to all of these decisions and we are seeing the results of it…that’s the point.
I did. It was the increase in fentanyl which come through the border states.
Yes.
No. Go for it.
Considered. Doesn't make sense considering the states though.
I only take issue with people who tie it to isolation and restrictions.
Merge, you are a saint.
You have been trying to educate these people for years on this board.
While you are probably doing the right thing by continuing to try to show the light (truth) to many of these closed off minds, I am still sorry you have to deal with this level of ignorance and misplaced venom. Even now people on here are attacking you because their truths are fractured. You spend extra time to research these frequently shared untrue points they regurgitate on this board from their often extreme sources or come up with unsubstantiated conclusions from a MSM source (this example).
Still you are patient with these same people stating things that are so far from the truth that you got to be thinking “am I wasting my time here and are they worth any more of my precious time” when there is a good case that this will not change their thoughts even when the truth is staring at them in the face.
I don’t know you but you seem like a kind soul and respect your effort.
You have been trying to educate these people for years on this board.
While you are probably doing the right thing by continuing to try to show the light (truth) to many of these closed off minds, I am still sorry you have to deal with this level of ignorance and misplaced venom. Even now people on here are attacking you because their truths are fractured. You spend extra time to research these frequently shared untrue points they regurgitate on this board from their often extreme sources or come up with unsubstantiated conclusions from a MSM source (this example).
Still you are patient with these same people stating things that are so far from the truth that you got to be thinking “am I wasting my time here and are they worth any more of my precious time” when there is a good case that this will not change their thoughts even when the truth is staring at them in the face.
I don’t know you but you seem like a kind soul and respect your effort.
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No, he is one trick pit bull and the rest of you are sycophants.
He continually reads more into posts that what is there.
He continually misinterprets posts and restates other peoples words to say what he wrongly things they are saying.
The OP made none of the conclusions or inferences that Merge purports. Merge, projected posts from other thread on to this and conclude that must be what he meant.
That was a contributor. I never argued it wasn't.
It wasn't the sole cause for the increase.
here is another radical source.
His death certificate listed the cause of death as the progression of Alzheimer’s disease and “social isolation / failure to thrive related to COVID-19 restrictions.”
www.nbcnews.com
His death certificate listed the cause of death as the progression of Alzheimer’s disease and “social isolation / failure to thrive related to COVID-19 restrictions.”
The hidden Covid-19 health crisis: Elderly people are dying from isolation
The lockdowns and visitor restrictions meant to protect nursing home residents from the coronavirus can also threaten their lives.
www.nbcnews.com
Loneliness and Social Isolation Linked to Serious Health Conditions
Older adults who are lonely or socially isolated are at greater risk for serious medical conditions. Here are resources to help you stay connected.
www.cdc.gov
The very radical JAMA:
jamanetwork.com
Accounting For Lives Lost in The COVID-19 Pandemic From Unemployment, Social Isolation, and Depression
This Viewpoint discusses how COVID-19–related policy decisions lead to trade-offs between medical, economic, social, and psychological outcomes, and emphasizes the need to account for deaths associated with unemployment and depression when estimating excess mortality.
jamanetwork.com
July 9, 2020
Lives vs Money (and Lives!!!)
Gary Ginsberg, DrPH, MSc (Econ) | Braun School of Public Health, Hebrew University, Jerusalem
As the authors correctly point out, its not only health vs economy, but it's actually health vs (economy and health). Israel (population 8.7 million), has had a relatively low death toll from COVID of 343 souls. Having successfully implemented a lockdown to almost eliminate the first wave (at one stage down to 5 new cases a day), we are now in the midst of a huge second wave (around 1,000 cases a day) and a further lockdown remains a possibility. Data from Scotland (Clemens et al. EJPH 2015,25,115) showed age-adjusted relative risk of mortality in unemployed males and females to be 1.85 and 1.51 respectively. Applying these data to the Israeli population, I estimate that if a lockdown reduces employment by 70% then 1,700 lives will be lost to unemployment-related factors during the next 12 months. This exceeds the estimated deaths from COVID that are liable to be prevented.
If employment is reduced by 50% then there will be around 505 extra unemployment-related deaths. I know it's hard to think across sectors, but we have to at least (as the authors suggest) start combining cross-sectorial data on which to make our decisions.
Lives vs Money (and Lives!!!)
Gary Ginsberg, DrPH, MSc (Econ) | Braun School of Public Health, Hebrew University, Jerusalem
As the authors correctly point out, its not only health vs economy, but it's actually health vs (economy and health). Israel (population 8.7 million), has had a relatively low death toll from COVID of 343 souls. Having successfully implemented a lockdown to almost eliminate the first wave (at one stage down to 5 new cases a day), we are now in the midst of a huge second wave (around 1,000 cases a day) and a further lockdown remains a possibility. Data from Scotland (Clemens et al. EJPH 2015,25,115) showed age-adjusted relative risk of mortality in unemployed males and females to be 1.85 and 1.51 respectively. Applying these data to the Israeli population, I estimate that if a lockdown reduces employment by 70% then 1,700 lives will be lost to unemployment-related factors during the next 12 months. This exceeds the estimated deaths from COVID that are liable to be prevented.
If employment is reduced by 50% then there will be around 505 extra unemployment-related deaths. I know it's hard to think across sectors, but we have to at least (as the authors suggest) start combining cross-sectorial data on which to make our decisions.
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