“Excess Deaths” from COVID
- Thread starter HALL85
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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Maybe hes not in sales but hes not the only one that interacts with that group of professionals. Most dont feel the need to tell strangers on a message board about their rolodex lol
Really you’re such a dope. I don’t profess to be any expert on many of these issues but am fortunate to be in a position to learn from them. I cite them as a source of expertise rather than claim their knowledge to be mine…you don’t like it; I really don’t care because you rarely want to discuss a topic like an adult.
There are other posters on this board that I know personally that have impressive networks of their own whose opinions matter more because of that. (Pirata is one BTW, who I would take to the bank on security and surveillance expertise).
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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There is no point trying to have an honest conversation with someone who claims their posts are cherry picked when presented with the receipts.
Please carry on arguing with the other posters about how the Yahoo article proves you right (hint- it doesnt). The steam coming out of your ears as your past posts are cited is quite comical.
They were needed early on. That’s it. But after the spring/summer enough was enough IMHO
You've changed your views and now admit you were wrong in your cavalier dismissal of the virus in the early days of the pandemic? It only took two years but I am glad to see you finally looked and the science and data and have changed your views. It takes a big man to admit that you were wrong.
https://www.mcall.com/coronavirus/m...0220221-5qe5yvua6rbw3dlevx6nyqisga-story.html
Merge, saw this story in my morning paper on excess COVID deaths in PA since the start of the pandemic that supports some of the points that I/we have been discussing. And just to be clear, I am not saying "all" deaths, but the healthcare experts quoted in the article support what I was hearing earlier in the pandemic on the collateral risks.
Regarding those, the analysis zeroed in on five types of deaths that may be indirectly related to COVID-19: overdoses, homicides, suicides, vehicle accidents and nonvehicle accidents.
It found significant increases in several: a 44.4% increase in homicides, a 19.7% in overdose deaths and an 11% increase in nonvehicle accidents.
Goldman pointed to the rise in homicides, which had declined in the three years prior to 2020. He said it may be related to stress from being cooped because of lockdowns and restrictions. “The number of homicides is not surprising to me because a huge percentage of homicides are people killing their partner,” he said.
Nor was Ssentongo, who was involved in research which showed a rise in gun violence during the pandemic, surprised by the rise in homicides.
“While stay-at-home orders helped to reduce mortality from COVID-19 and lessen the strain on hospitals, there were consequences, some fatal consequences. Domestic violence, child abuse, increased use of drugs and alcohol, lack of social support, lack of access to health care, and more,” she said.
The analysis was done by Pennsylvania’s Independent Fiscal Office, considered a trustworthy source of information by both Democratic and Republican lawmakers.
Also in that link though is a quote which shares my assumption about under reporting.
"Dr. John Goldman, a UPMC infectious disease specialist, said it “tells us what I think we already kind of knew, which is for all the talk of over counting COVID-19 deaths, the evidence is that we probably undercounted."
And if you use this type of data to support the idea that these deaths were the results of decisions that were made in response to a pandemic, my question would be what would the numbers have been without any of those decisions?
Obviously that is difficult to answer but that is why I look at states were these decisions were not being made and there were no restrictions in place. It seems off to point to the decisions as the cause but not the fact that a global pandemic inherently causes some of the same stress/anxiety and economic issues without any restrictions at all and states with no restrictions were seeing similar excess deaths.
The CDC puts the estimate of non-covid excess deaths for 2020 and 2021 as 2,795 for PA.
25% of those occurring between November and December 2020.
25% occur between August and September 2021
25% occur between November and December 2021
75% of the total excess in PA over 21 months (April 2020 - Dec 2021) is concentrated in 6 months when there happen to be Covid waves.
3% occurred from in the first 7 months of 2021.
The timing of that may be coincidental but in my opinion, it seems to point towards underreporting of Covid deaths.
In that IFO report, the homicide number does jump out as a significant increase.
But the drop in suicides also jumps out as pretty significant as well especially when you would have been expecting an increase from imposed restrictions and economic uncertainties. Right?
I think overall the restrictions sucked and we went overboard with them. I'm usually on the side of erring on the side of caution, especially with a novel virus, so it didn't bother me that much. Overall I think most people were resilient and able to adapt to their new environments better than some people were expecting. While some bad things certainly happened, I'm not sold on the idea that they were the result of decisions made instead of just being the natural result of an unfortunate circumstance created by a global pandemic which would have occurred with or without any restrictions.
Can’t we both be right? I specifically said “some” of the information that was predicted.
Even one of the authors was surprised by the drop in suicides thus far, considering the other numbers rose dramatically. As I said earlier, healthcare experts I spoke with indicated that suicide is have more of a lag. It will be interesting to see what this year and next year as Dado looks like in that category.
That’s fine. You disagree with the conclusions. That’s your opinion. I happen to agree with the data. The point I’ve been making all along is that we also need to look at the collateral damage done by some of our decisions including isolation and restrictions. Some of those decisions will have saved more lives from Covid. Some may very well to prove that they were disastrous in the long term especially if we ignore them. My view is that you just can’t look at Covid deaths only in a vacuum.
Of course it is something we should take the time to analyze and understand, but I do not believe the data supports your view at this point even if your assumptions are all forward looking, I'm not sure how you are distinguishing unintended consequences of restrictions vs. unfortunate consequence of a global pandemic vs. something that was going to happen regardless of a pandemic.
I’m not Distinguishing between them. These authors and others are pointing out that there are deaths occurring due to isolation. Healthcare folks that have been treating these people since the beginning of the pandemic predicted that we would have to deal with these kind of issues. And the data is supporting that. It’s still too early to determine what percentage of the totals are but to just ignore it as a factor is being naïve.
For instance, Death by loneliness is a real thing. Elderly lose their desire to live because they have lost human contact. That’s just one example.
Exactly. That's the problem. You should put some effort into that if you are really trying to understand the impact from decisions we made. You said we shouldn't look at things in a vacuum, right? Ignoring what things would be like without any restrictions is doing exactly that though.
How can we make decisions about how we should respond if another pandemic years from now if we can't distinguish between unintended consequences from restrictions versus something that may be the inevitable result of a contagious novel virus killing hundreds of thousands of people?
You set a record making assumptions….and you’re not the arbitor of how much “effort” I should put into posting.
More data and analyzing over time will provide more clarity as to the results of decisions that were made. I don’t see why you you would have a problem with mental health professionals making observations based on their past experiences and what they are currently seeing. Now the data is supporting those observations directionally.
I'm only suggesting you should if you really want to understand the impacts from the decisions that were made.
The data so far suggests excess deaths beyond Covid deaths during a global pandemic.
There are opinions as to why the data shows that. Some are supportable and some are guesses.
I’ll take that under advisement
You have your opinions…I was just sharing opinions of medical experts.
As am I.
Our only difference is that you tend to focus on unintended consequences of decisions we made in response to the pandemic and I believe that that the far majority of excess deaths were the inevitable result of a contagious novel virus as well as underreported Covid deaths.
No I don't. I share information from experts in the industry that I am lucky to have access.
N.J. sheriff’s officer dies from COVID he contracted on duty, officials say
Matthew Horton is survived by his wife and four young sons.
40 years old a former marine leaving a wife and 4 children....I don't get it
