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Charlottesville

I do not buy your argument nor do I buy the Presidents assertion that thee were "good people" marching with the KKK & Nazi's. First of all virtually everyone knew who was sponsoring this demonstration but even if you didn't when you arrived on Friday night before the counter demonstrators were there and saw the KKK & Nazi flags, the weapons and heard the anti Semitic chants as the march started you certainly knew then.

In life we have choices to make and anyone who chose to return Saturday decided that they were part of this group and were just as evil as the others were. As your hero Newt Gingrich said "good people do not march with the Nazi's". The President was way off base in declaring his concern for those "good people" who partook in this march with those who represent pure evil. You can not equate those who stand up to show their opposition to evil with those who brought it with them.

Tom K

Tom I agree with you to a point. Yes nobody should ever want to be associated with the KKK or Nazis. I think we can all agree on that. But I do believe there is the probability that there were people there for the historical reason of keeping the statue. That's like saying anyone who goes to a BLM march is bad because their chants are "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now" or the fact the city of Charlotte, NC was vandalized like crazy last year. There's no way you can associate 100% of all people who attend to that behavior. I like to believe there are people who show up to these events with good intentions on both sides, but the scumbags grab the spotlight.
 
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However when I went back to see if you discussed the Robert E Lee quote or article it was not posted. Anyway here is the quote by Lee concerning the building of monuments.

“I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered,”

Cern, good quote by Lee. Correct, I did not discuss the quote. My comments were that I had posted in agreement to Lee's stance on statues prior to your post.

Anyway, a few years back I read "Grants Final Victory"( Great book), a book about his last year of life. That lead me to read his memoirs (Long books!) which lead me to "Read "Lee, The Last Years" (Good book). The Lee book covers Appomattox through his death.

Tidbit: Lee's wife Julia was a direct descendant of Martha Washington through her first husband, Daniel Custis. That is where his slaves came from. The land at Arlington Cemetery and it's mansion was her ancestral home which was confiscated by the North when the war started.

My reflection from the book was that he was an honorable man who worked hard after the war to rebuild the South and rebuild the nation. He was 63 at Appomattox and back in those days, that was old. He is perhaps the most revered historical figure in the South.

IMO, the key part of the quote is the second part, "to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered".

There are clearly still wounds from that War that have not been healed and I think we all agree that violent protest will not heal them.

I will post separately about how secession shows that slavery was also a fundamental issue for the founding fathers. In short, the FF went along with slavery and put provisions in the constitution to protect it.

I abhor slavery. We all learn history in grade school. We tend to have this noble vision of George Washington and the cherry tree, and Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, et al. When you start to really dig into, you see that the reality was that our historical figures were really no different from our political leaders today. They had their own issues of day and the fought each other with just as much vitriol as we see today. I despise that fact that the original Constitution protected slavery. Was it done as a compromise necessary to form the Union.

Who knows?

I have recently posted critically of Trump's handling of the Charllottesville. I stand by that criticism. However, part of the criticism included the "Dead Right" notion. While he should have immediately denounced the "Unite the Right" protesters, to think that alone would put this issue to rest is naive.

We have much more work to do to eradicate racism, bigotry, hatred, etc.
 
Sorry. No comparison between BLM and Nazis and the KKk. Anyone who compares tries to deflect.

A woman was killed protesting against the KKK and Neo Nazis and Trumo has not called her family. It's four days later. Disgraceful and end of story. There is no defense of the President.

5 police officers were killed at a BLM rally in Dallas.
 
Did anyone receive this email message from Uber this morning? I found it odd and considering Uber has been the recent subject of biased hiring practices, documented sexual harassment at the executive level and a toxic culture (termed the "asshole culture") with multiple executive and board firings. Now they are going to preach the moral high ground??? And how do they know we are "bracing for more white supremacist demonstrations"? I tried to reply, but it goes into a non-response folder.


Dear,

We were horrified by the neo-Nazi demonstration that took place in Charlottesville, which resulted in the loss of life of a young woman as well as two Virginia State Troopers responding to the protest. There is simply no place for this type of bigotry, discrimination, and hate.

As the country braces for more white supremacist demonstrations, we wanted to let you know what we are doing for the Uber community:



    • We will act swiftly and decisively to uphold our Community Guidelines, including our policy against discrimination of any kind—this includes banning people from the app.
    • 24/7 in-app support is available to answer questions and address concerns. You always have the right to end your trip if you feel uncomfortable or disrespected.
Now more than ever we must stand together against hatred and violence. Thank you for making our community one that we can all be proud of.

On behalf of all of us at Uber,
Meghan Verena Joyce
Regional General Manager, US & Canada Cities
 
To act like you know the real Trump because of what he's done in the public to make money, I think is ridiculous.

See, again we agree. I never said I knew the real Trump. What I said was he gave us 35 years of clues. Some people misread those clues because they thought they knew the real Trump from the Art of the Deal or The Apprentice.
 
Did anyone receive this email message from Uber this morning? I found it odd and considering Uber has been the recent subject of biased hiring practices, documented sexual harassment at the executive level and a toxic culture (termed the "asshole culture") with multiple executive and board firings. Now they are going to preach the moral high ground??? And how do they know we are "bracing for more white supremacist demonstrations"? I tried to reply, but it goes into a non-response folder.


Dear,

We were horrified by the neo-Nazi demonstration that took place in Charlottesville, which resulted in the loss of life of a young woman as well as two Virginia State Troopers responding to the protest. There is simply no place for this type of bigotry, discrimination, and hate.

As the country braces for more white supremacist demonstrations, we wanted to let you know what we are doing for the Uber community:



    • We will act swiftly and decisively to uphold our Community Guidelines, including our policy against discrimination of any kind—this includes banning people from the app.
    • 24/7 in-app support is available to answer questions and address concerns. You always have the right to end your trip if you feel uncomfortable or disrespected.
Now more than ever we must stand together against hatred and violence. Thank you for making our community one that we can all be proud of.

On behalf of all of us at Uber,
Meghan Verena Joyce
Regional General Manager, US & Canada Cities

The Founder and CEO of Uber has been removed due to the fact that he's an ass. The company is taking a stand against racists, KKk and Neo Nazis. I don't think they are being high and mighty. What's wrong with it?
 
I got the Uber email as well. Of course they're being high and mighty, pandering to their base.
 
I got the Uber email.

They are taking a stand against the KKK and Neo Nazis. Wow. How nice of them. That is such a hard thing to justify (Sarcasm).

I now feel safe that if my driver is a card carrying white supremacist, I can cancel the ride and ask him to let me out by the sidewalk.

"Driver, excuse me, I am Catholic and I get the sense you don't like me. BTW, do you root for Seton Hall? Never mind. Anyway, I am feeling uncomfortable. Please pull over and let me out. Good day and Seig Heil, Homey".

Will they also take a stand against?

People who kill 19 Mexicans by locking them in a semi tractor?
Cop hating psychos who assassinate police officers sitting in their cars?
Black Panthers?
ISIS sympathizers who kill our soldiers on our soil?
Hmong child rapists?
Heroin dealers?
MS-13?

Perhaps those don't fit their narrative and the marketing expedience of exploiting the new found outrage from Charlottesville.
 
Does anyone find it funny how whites are the scapegoat in society?

I have no interest in a white supremacy rally, but didnt they have the permit for their event? Did this antifa have a permit?

Main stream media, including ESPN, is unbearable.
 
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The Founder and CEO of Uber has been removed due to the fact that he's an ass. The company is taking a stand against racists, KKk and Neo Nazis. I don't think they are being high and mighty. What's wrong with it?
It's called selective outrage... I figured you would even understand that.
 
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What a complete load of crap, you are stuck in the womb of MSNBC and CNN. The number of Antifa was just as big and just as loaded for violence.

You are too funny/phony. The neo-nazis revere Hitler; the Antifa reveres Castro, Chavez, Guevara, Shabazz, Mandela, Mao, and Stalin, all equally horrific domestic terrorists with collectively a body count 10 times Hitler's.

As per SnakeTom's post above, if these anti-protestors were so peace loving, why didn't they turn tail when they saw all their fellow comrades loaded and primed for violence?

This is a culture war both sides deserve to lose and their supporters doomed to hell with all those they admire.

A culture war? Are you kidding me?

One group is showing up to say they hate brown people and Jews, and the other side is showing up to defend them and you think they are equal?

This is not north vs south values... this was a hate group showing up to flex their supremacists muscles and people who showed up to fight back against that, and the idea that they were armed just as much is equally absurd. did you see how many guns there were? And you think people showing up with bats is somehow equal?

What is happening by these white supremacists is extraordinarily dangerous. We need to squash it. We need to show them that there is no place for them in America.

I think a few of you are missing the bigger picture here.
 
"So like...I use Uber...because...like..they stand up against hate....and like...the KKK and White supremacists...and like that's kinda cool....like..they are not being silent"

It reminds for the "War is not healthy for children and other living things" signs.

War is not good? No shit?

That was such a mighty and deep slogan.

I guess the idiot that thought that one up was inspired by all the "War is Wonderful" posters you see around.

(Sarcasm in the last three sentences. Just making sure)
 
Did anyone receive this email message from Uber this morning? I found it odd and considering Uber has been the recent subject of biased hiring practices, documented sexual harassment at the executive level and a toxic culture (termed the "asshole culture") with multiple executive and board firings. Now they are going to preach the moral high ground??? And how do they know we are "bracing for more white supremacist demonstrations"? I tried to reply, but it goes into a non-response folder.

While the move by Uber will not accomplish much... Lets not chastise people who are standing up to hate please...
Everyone should be on board with standing up against white supremacist nazi's.

And what do you mean by "how do they know we are bracing for more white supremacist demonstrations"?
Do you not know they are planning more demonstrations?
 
I hate to say it but I think we need a war. We have too much time on our hands to dispute our differences. We need a common enemy to unite around. It's a sad, sad world right now. We're fighting about symbolic things, whether you think they are good or bad is up to you, but in the grand scheme they are irrevelent when you see what happened in Barcelona yesterday.
 
A culture war? Are you kidding me?

One group is showing up to say they hate brown people and Jews, and the other side is showing up to defend them and you think they are equal?

This is not north vs south values... this was a hate group showing up to flex their supremacists muscles and people who showed up to fight back against that, and the idea that they were armed just as much is equally absurd. did you see how many guns there were? And you think people showing up with bats is somehow equal?

What is happening by these white supremacists is extraordinarily dangerous. We need to squash it. We need to show them that there is no place for them in America.

I think a few of you are missing the bigger picture here.

Their Neo-Nazi views, while horrible, are just as protected in this country as the LGBQT agenda, BLM movement and so many more. What you want to say is there is no place in America for those with dissenting views from the left.
 
I hate to say it but I think we need a war. We have too much time on our hands to dispute our differences. We need a common enemy to unite around. It's a sad, sad world right now. We're fighting about symbolic things, whether you think they are good or bad is up to you, but in the grand scheme they are irrevelent when you see what happened in Barcelona yesterday.

Should we not all be united against Nazis and the KKk? James Murdoch son of Rupert just said this
"I can't even believe I have to write this: standing up to Nazis is essential; there are no good Nazis. Or Klansmen, or terrorists. Democrats, Republicans, and others must all agree on this, and it compromises nothing for them to do so."

It saddens me to see what happened in Barcelona. Las Ramblas is such a vibrant part of that beautiful city. As a survivor of 9/11, each terrorist attack that happens strikes me in a particular painful way and brings me back to 9/11.
 
Their Neo-Nazi views, while horrible, are just as protected in this country as the LGBQT agenda, BLM movement and so many more. What you want to say is there is no place in America for those with dissenting views from the left.

Stop trying to normalize Nazi's.

This isn't just normal political dissenting views.
 
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Stop trying to normalize Nazi's.

This isn't just normal political dissenting views.

I'm not normalizing anything. I'm saying their speech is as protected as BLM and any other group you consider a hero.
 
While the move by Uber will not accomplish much... Lets not chastise people who are standing up to hate please...
Everyone should be on board with standing up against white supremacist nazi's.

And what do you mean by "how do they know we are bracing for more white supremacist demonstrations"?
Do you not know they are planning more demonstrations?
I guess you missed my comment about "selective outrage". I don't know if more are being planned or not. But Uber seems to have access to facts that you were I don't have.
 
I'm not normalizing anything. I'm saying their speech is as protected as BLM and any other group you consider a hero.

Stop deflecting. BLM is not my hero.

I denounce violence, but we fought Nazi's for a reason. The idea that we could have an uprising here of ****ing Nazi's while people stand back and think this is just them expressing their free speech is insane.
 
A culture war? Are you kidding me?

One group is showing up to say they hate brown people and Jews, and the other side is showing up to defend them and you think they are equal?

This is not north vs south values... this was a hate group showing up to flex their supremacists muscles and people who showed up to fight back against that, and the idea that they were armed just as much is equally absurd. did you see how many guns there were? And you think people showing up with bats is somehow equal?

What is happening by these white supremacists is extraordinarily dangerous. We need to squash it. We need to show them that there is no place for them in America.

I think a few of you are missing the bigger picture here.

What a joke.

One group hates blacks and jews; the other group hates everyone not fully on board with their agenda.

That guns things is a complete lie, see the Charlottesville police on that, that's been completely debunked.

The big picture is that both groups have violent, evil agendas.
 
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Stop trying to characterize hate residing in one and only one group.

I didn't... I have plenty of hate for Nazi's.

I guess you missed my comment about "selective outrage". I don't know if more are being planned or not. But Uber seems to have access to facts that you were I don't have.

I didn't miss your comment. I don't understand why you think ANYONE can not speak out against racism. EVERYONE should be on board with that.
Stop with the whataboutism. Racism is bad.

Uber has access to the same facts we do. More rallies are planned. There are 9 planned this weekend alone.
 
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Stop deflecting. BLM is not my hero.

I denounce violence, but we fought Nazi's for a reason. The idea that we could have an uprising here of ****ing Nazi's while people stand back and think this is just them expressing their free speech is insane.

Nobody here is saying that, everyone here has denounced the neo-nazis in no uncertain terms but many here have their heads in the sand thinking they are the only ones with an evil, hateful, violent agenda.

Morally, both are bankrupt and equally as dangerous.
 
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Stop deflecting. BLM is not my hero.

I denounce violence, but we fought Nazi's for a reason. The idea that we could have an uprising here of ****ing Nazi's while people stand back and think this is just them expressing their free speech is insane.

LOL - an uprising? This is a fringe group of people who will stay on the fringe of society. It is a media creation that these people are somehow starting some uprising. The same media creations we are bombarded with daily about our president, who won the election under the same rules as the previous 44 presidents. 99% of hard working Americans are too busy working for every penny to support themselves to have time to join some hate group.
 
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What a joke.

One group hates blacks and jews; the other group hates everyone not fully on board with their agenda.

That guns things is a complete lie, see the Charlottesville police on that, that's been completely debunked.

The big picture is that both groups have violent, evil agendas.

How has the guns thing been debunked? Are you saying they didn't show up with guns?
Did you watch the Vice video I posted?
 
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LOL - an uprising? This is a fringe group of people who will stay on the fringe of society. It is a media creation that these people are somehow starting some uprising. The same media creations we are bombarded with daily about our president, who won the election under the same rules as the previous 44 presidents. 99% of hard working Americans are too busy working for every penny to support themselves to have time to join some hate group.

Yes, an uprising. This was the largest white supremacist rally in our country in decades. 9 more rallies planned this weekend. Their members stating that they are becoming more organized and this is just the beginning.
Get your head out of the sand and pay attention.
 
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Yes, an uprising. This was the largest white supremacist rally in our country in decades. 9 more rallies planned this weekend. Their members stating that they are becoming more organized and this is just the beginning.
Get your head out of the sand and pay attention.

If they changed their name to White Lives Matter and chanted about killing cops (sparking heinous attacks on cops in the last year) would they be acceptable in your book?

There is no uprising. Until the first amendment is changed this is just a fringe group of people who have screwed up views, but have the right to demonstrate.
 
it's so sad that something as basic as being against Nazis and KKK that some posters have to qualify their denouncement of these groups by saying that the other side is equally bad as it was Cued from your Leader The Donald.

Marching with torches, chanting Nazi slogans, chanting Jews will not replace us is not a civil discourse on political philosophy. All of this was to flex white power and to intimidate and to provoke a fight. They got exactly what they wanted and the President and some posters here try to say it's equal blame. Shame on you all.
 
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I hate to say it but I think we need a war. We have too much time on our hands to dispute our differences. We need a common enemy to unite around. It's a sad, sad world right now. We're fighting about symbolic things, whether you think they are good or bad is up to you, but in the grand scheme they are irrevelent when you see what happened in Barcelona yesterday.

What happened in Charlottesville was terrorism so I don't see how it is different. In fact it was probably more significant because it was domestic terrorism and and went un-condemned by the President of the United States.

Unless you think one is more serious because it was committed by a brown Muslim as opposed to a white Christian. But that is part of the problem.

Also yes lets have a war with thousands of people dying because you dont want to have a tough discussion. Great suggestion
 
it's so sad that something as basic as being against Nazis and KKK that some posters have to qualify their denouncement of these groups by saying that the other side is equally bad as it was Cued from your Leader The Donald.

Marching with torches, chanting Nazi slogans, chanting Jews will not replace us is not a civil discourse on political philosophy. All of this was to flex white power and to intimidate and to provoke a fight. They got exactly what they wanted and the President and some posters here try to say it's equal blame. Shame on you all.

If people cannot denounce groups on both sides, than there is a clear bias. All the comments I have read here are denouncing the alt-right, while also making note that the alt-left has done just as much damage. However, people on the left cannot acknowledge there are hate groups on their side. Burning property, chanting anti-white slogans and attacking police is not a civil discourse on political philosophy.

Our previous president did nothing to squash that behavior and was never taken to task by the MSM.
 
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If people cannot denounce groups on both sides, than there is a clear bias. All the comments I have read here are denouncing the alt-right, while also making note that the alt-left has done just as much damage. However, people on the left cannot acknowledge there are hate groups on their side. Burning property, chanting anti-white slogans and attacking police is not a civil discourse on political philosophy.

Our previous president did nothing to squash that behavior and was never taken to task by the MSM.

There's the mic drop.
 
If people cannot denounce groups on both sides, than there is a clear bias. All the comments I have read here are denouncing the alt-right, while also making note that the alt-left has done just as much damage. However, people on the left cannot acknowledge there are hate groups on their side. Burning property, chanting anti-white slogans and attacking police is not a civil discourse on political philosophy.

Our previous president did nothing to squash that behavior and was never taken to task by the MSM.
No one here said they were in favor of groups that burn cars or anti cop chants.

We are talking about what happened in Charlottesville. No where else. And there was no car burning or anti cop chants by the counter protestors going on. Please stop conflating two different incidents. This is about one incident and the blame goes to the Nazis and KKK side.
 
What happened in Charlottesville was terrorism so I don't see how it is different. In fact it was probably more significant because it was domestic terrorism and and went un-condemned by the President of the United States.

Unless you think one is more serious because it was committed by a brown Muslim as opposed to a white Christian. But that is part of the problem.

Also yes lets have a war with thousands of people dying because you dont want to have a tough discussion. Great suggestion

lets have the tough discussion. I didn't see anyone having a peaceful talk with anyone in Charlottesville. Nazis need to go. But so do people that take advantage of rallies and kill cops and vandalize cities. Let's discuss al of that. When's it going to happen? Who is going to take part in it? Nobody cares if 2 people like me and you have the discussion at a bar. And why did Obama not have the discussion when he was president. Baltimore Fergusson Charlotte all happens when he was President
 
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I didn't... I have plenty of hate for Nazi's.



I didn't miss your comment. I don't understand why you think ANYONE can not speak out against racism. EVERYONE should be on board with that.
Stop with the whataboutism. Racism is bad.

Uber has access to the same facts we do. More rallies are planned. There are 9 planned this weekend alone.
Yes anyone can and should speak out about racism. But when it's selective to advance your agenda then shame on them.
 
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No one here said they were in favor of groups that burn cars or anti cop chants.

We are talking about what happened in Charlottesville. No where else. And there was no car burning or anti cop chants by the counter protestors going on. Please stop conflating two different incidents. This is about one incident and the blame goes to the Nazis and KKK side.

I am giving you Charlottesville.

Now lets talk about Berkeley, Dallas, Milwaukee, Ferguson, Baltimore, Charlotte, etc.
 
I am giving you Charlottesville.

Now lets talk about Berkeley, Dallas, Milwaukee, Ferguson, Baltimore, Charlotte, etc.
Disgraceful what happened in all of those cities. All wrong. Especially in Dallas where 5 innocent police officers died in the line of duty by a cowardly sniper attack by an ex member of the military.
 
Disgraceful what happened in all of those cities. All wrong. Especially in Dallas where 5 innocent police officers died in the line of duty by a cowardly sniper attack by an ex member of the military.

Completely agree with that.

But we can all agree Kasich is a reasonable guy right?

There is "no moral equivalency between neo-Nazis and the KKK and anybody else” I am in full agreement with him.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._isnt_it_just_pathetic_listening_to_this.html
 
Does anyone find it funny how whites are the scapegoat in society?

I have no interest in a white supremacy rally, but didnt they have the permit for their event? Did this antifa have a permit?

Main stream media, including ESPN, is unbearable.

Since when do you need a permit to stand up and oppose evil. That was just another bogus argument throw out by the President. Gee, maybe the Germans would have stood up to Hitler in the 1930's if they only had a permit.

Tom K
 
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