Exactly. where they all giddy in Stillwater and Fort Worth when Beard went to Texas because a good Texas is good for the Big 12?
Posh Alexander
- Thread starter TRUE SHU FAN
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Only thing the Big East needs is a super strong SHU.
My dream scenario is SHU is Gonzaga, Nova is SMC, GTown is Pepperdine and everyone else is conference fodder. I don’t need a strong UConn, STJ and GTown to feel good about SHU.
My dream scenario is SHU is Gonzaga, Nova is SMC, GTown is Pepperdine and everyone else is conference fodder. I don’t need a strong UConn, STJ and GTown to feel good about SHU.
Obviously we all want Seton Hall to be the best team in conference, but having good/great teams also benefits Seton Hall. Much better to beat a SJ team that is top 25 vs beating a 2-18 cellar dweller team. I much rather SHU go 15-5 against tough competition than say 18-2 against a bad conference.
Perfect example is the B10 this season, the view that the B10 was so great, helped Rutgers a lot and they got many teams in the tourney.
Doesn't mean you have to root for the other teams, be happy when they get players, etc..
Ha ha, he should change his twitter handle to JohnniesFTL
Time warp. How many listen to WFAN now compared to 25 years ago?
What the league needs is another perennial NCAA advancer. In 2021 it doesn’t matter what school that is, coverage wise. Georgetown and Marquette are the two I thought would be consistently great in the new league given what they were doing in the old and their resources, but they’re worse than before.
Yeah, But I’m sure all of the other St John’s fans are saying that Seton Hall’s roster improvements the past few days are a good thing for them since it helps the conference. 👌
College basketball has turned into the freaking Twilight Zone Just crazy!
Think of the fate of Seton Hall and St Johns from just 2-3 weeks ago. The turnaround would make one's head spin. The Pirates seemed down and out after a disappointing season and a really bad previous recruiting class. St Johns was on the upswing with coach of the year, Freshman and defensive player of the year in Posh and Champagne turning into a BE star. Now suddenly we're pulling in very good players...and IMHO a future star in Richmond and everything turned upside down with St Johns losing half their team. I'm so used to us coming up on the short side of things that I'm pinching myself that this is real.
Hope Posh doesn't leave, he's good for the league.
Just crazy!Think of the fate of Seton Hall and St Johns from just 2-3 weeks ago. The turnaround would make one's head spin. The Pirates seemed down and out after a disappointing season and a really bad previous recruiting class. St Johns was on the upswing with coach of the year, Freshman and defensive player of the year in Posh and Champagne turning into a BE star. Now suddenly we're pulling in very good players...and IMHO a future star in Richmond and everything turned upside down with St Johns losing half their team. I'm so used to us coming up on the short side of things that I'm pinching myself that this is real.
Hope Posh doesn't leave, he's good for the league.
its pretty simple. you want the league to maintain competitiveness with other leagues while also succeeding specifically for shu.
the big east trending down is not good. rising tide floats all boats
the big east trending down is not good. rising tide floats all boats
Is one year a trend, or just one year? And I’d say that if the opposite happened, as well.,
When the BE was the best conference in the country it did nothing for us but maybe 1/2 of that was Orr and Gonzo
I think we all recognize that the stronger a Conference is and the more teams in that Conference that are ranked in the top 25 and make the Tournament the better it is for all the teams in the Conference . Having said that there are schools in our Conference that I never want to be better then us for a host of reasons and
I hope they never are . I don’t subscribe to the theory that a strong SJ or GT or Uconn is good for SH and I’d rather see them looking up at us in the Conference standings every year.
I hope they never are . I don’t subscribe to the theory that a strong SJ or GT or Uconn is good for SH and I’d rather see them looking up at us in the Conference standings every year.
yes. football schools will be boosted up up up. baylor got the party started
Maybe this year with the addition of Richmond and co. We help raise the tide.
I've long said that I believe it is important for the Big East that St. John's, Villanova and Georgetown be solid programs and NCAA contenders most years. It would be helpful if DePaul was in that conversation as well but it's been decades since they mattered. Those are the programs located in major media markets and when they are good, they draw more eyes to themselves and the Big East as a whole. Georgetown is still something of a national brand which helps even more. Of those schools, only Villanova has come close to being consistently good and in fact has been the Big East's standard bearer since realignment.
I modify that stance slightly in recent years because the addition of UConn puts them at the same level. Not for market size but because they are a state school and a national brand because of their still recent success. Maybe if SJU and Georgetown had been much good in the first five years of the NBE, FOX wouldn't have felt a need to push for UConn to be added.
That doesn't mean having good teams in other markets isn't good for the conference. In fact it's important for the Big East that Seton Hall, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Marquette and Providence be NCAA competitive on a near-annual basis. It just doesn't move the needle as much as the others might.
With all that said, I'm fine if SJU goes 6-26, UConn 11-20 and Georgetown 14-18 or something along those lines. I'm much more concerned that Seton Hall wins 20-plus games, earns an NCAA bid and hopefully wins a couple of games. While I'm pragmatic enough to understand that having a strong Big East ultimately is good for Seton Hall, I'm not really interested in seeing other schools have any success.
I modify that stance slightly in recent years because the addition of UConn puts them at the same level. Not for market size but because they are a state school and a national brand because of their still recent success. Maybe if SJU and Georgetown had been much good in the first five years of the NBE, FOX wouldn't have felt a need to push for UConn to be added.
That doesn't mean having good teams in other markets isn't good for the conference. In fact it's important for the Big East that Seton Hall, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Marquette and Providence be NCAA competitive on a near-annual basis. It just doesn't move the needle as much as the others might.
With all that said, I'm fine if SJU goes 6-26, UConn 11-20 and Georgetown 14-18 or something along those lines. I'm much more concerned that Seton Hall wins 20-plus games, earns an NCAA bid and hopefully wins a couple of games. While I'm pragmatic enough to understand that having a strong Big East ultimately is good for Seton Hall, I'm not really interested in seeing other schools have any success.
Mike & the Dog being gone has hurt the ratings too, although apparently the Roberts/Carton show is doing pretty well. The morning show also does pretty well, although I'm not sure how that compares to Imus heyday.
To Burnsly's point, there is an audience that listens to the stream on radio.com instead of on terrestrial radio. I sometimes do that. Satellite and the podcast network has also cut into WFAN ratings, and the WFAN shows have interviews and stuff available on radio.com you can listen to anytime, as opposed to live. I've found myself catching an interesting interview that way as well.
To Burnsly's point, there is an audience that listens to the stream on radio.com instead of on terrestrial radio. I sometimes do that. Satellite and the podcast network has also cut into WFAN ratings, and the WFAN shows have interviews and stuff available on radio.com you can listen to anytime, as opposed to live. I've found myself catching an interesting interview that way as well.
Also, the point isn’t just that it’s good they were talking about him on the radio. It’s that it says something about his potential to become a bigger star in the NYC market if they were talking about him on the morning show, where they rarely if ever talk college hoops outside of Jerry’s Rutgers games, an occasional Maryland game (for Boomer), and March Madness. If they’re talking about it then he’s getting some attention from those who don’t closely follow college hoops. (Gio is a St. John’s fan, I think, but hasn’t regularly been talking about their games the past few years or anything.)
Are you denying that having 6 to 8 teams in the NCAA tournament is good for the conference? The stronger the conference, the better the exposure. With exposure comes more money and better recruits. The key is to have the league crush OOC opponents, than killing each other in conference makes our teams stronger in the NCAA tournament.
Sure having six or eight teams in the tournament is good for the league. But do you think Duke fans are rooting for UNC to get better or vice versa? Or Oregon fans are happy with Oregon State's re-emergence? I could go on but I said it above, I think it's great for the league and important to the league if SJU is good. I'd rather they finish at the bottom of the standings.
It’s going to be hard (not impossible) for the league to get 6 to 8 teams because with only 11 overall playing a 20 game schedule, that’s a lot of losses for everyone to absorb. And even when that happens, you are most likely going to get several teams seeded in that 7 to 10 range.
This whole idea of wanting to see other teams do well for the benefit of the league is just so silly, especially when it a direct affect of it is when it holds your own team back. Just look to last month..... Georgetown winning the BET was supposedly great. Who did they beat in the semifinals again? Who was SHU embarrassed by in the final regular season game? Oh, that’s right, St John’s! Was anyone here watching those games and thinking “This is bad for us, but it’s okay because their success is good for the league?” And again, the FIRST time any Georgetown or St John’s person says that about Seton Hall, let us know!
This whole idea of wanting to see other teams do well for the benefit of the league is just so silly, especially when it a direct affect of it is when it holds your own team back. Just look to last month..... Georgetown winning the BET was supposedly great. Who did they beat in the semifinals again? Who was SHU embarrassed by in the final regular season game? Oh, that’s right, St John’s! Was anyone here watching those games and thinking “This is bad for us, but it’s okay because their success is good for the league?” And again, the FIRST time any Georgetown or St John’s person says that about Seton Hall, let us know!
+1. We will be waiting a long time for when Marquette and St. John’s are at the top of the league. Because I’m sure CBS is just waiting to put all of that old Carnesecca and Maguire footage out there. I’m ok with that!
More important for the league to have a couple top 10 teams each year.
The Big East will be better next year than this year.
Shaka Smart is going to make Marquette much better than they were.
Butler will be better.
Georgetown will probably even be better honestly despite losing Wahab. Their PG was very impressive and they have a great recruiting class.
Depaul can’t be any worse.
St.John’s didn’t make the dance and weren’t very good other than having a unique style. Also, Mike Anderson is a good coach and I am assuming you will see them pull of a few upsets this upcoming year even with a bunch of transfers because of their style.
Shaka Smart is going to make Marquette much better than they were.
Butler will be better.
Georgetown will probably even be better honestly despite losing Wahab. Their PG was very impressive and they have a great recruiting class.
Depaul can’t be any worse.
St.John’s didn’t make the dance and weren’t very good other than having a unique style. Also, Mike Anderson is a good coach and I am assuming you will see them pull of a few upsets this upcoming year even with a bunch of transfers because of their style.
I look at it this way...do I want to be a big fish in a small pond. And the answer is no, never.
If SHU is ever going to maximize its potential it needs a very strong Big East to raise the profile of every league member. And by doing so increase exposure, which in turn will benefit recruiting.
Those that just focus on Seton Hall are missing the point. We will never be the best we can be if the league annually ranks 6th as it did this past season behind the power 5 football schools.
I don't want to be a glorified AAC or A-10 conference. I want to compete with the very best leagues and in turn the very best teams in those leagues.
For that to happen we need exposure, strength of conference, the ability to recruit at the highest levels. In short we need SJU, Georgetown, DePaul, etc. to be the best they can be and then for us to follow suit.
PJ a long time ago said it best. We became the power that we were (at the end of his SHU career) because of the Big East and the exposure it gave us.
That was true then and it's true now.
If SHU is ever going to maximize its potential it needs a very strong Big East to raise the profile of every league member. And by doing so increase exposure, which in turn will benefit recruiting.
Those that just focus on Seton Hall are missing the point. We will never be the best we can be if the league annually ranks 6th as it did this past season behind the power 5 football schools.
I don't want to be a glorified AAC or A-10 conference. I want to compete with the very best leagues and in turn the very best teams in those leagues.
For that to happen we need exposure, strength of conference, the ability to recruit at the highest levels. In short we need SJU, Georgetown, DePaul, etc. to be the best they can be and then for us to follow suit.
PJ a long time ago said it best. We became the power that we were (at the end of his SHU career) because of the Big East and the exposure it gave us.
That was true then and it's true now.
The bigger reason for the league overall to be better is for coaches to not leave every 5 years looking to upgrade. That’s my concern. I do not care at all who it is, but I want at least 3 teams in the top 25 and more for the good years.
Mark Few is the exception to the overall rule: most of the best coaches in the smaller conferences jump to a power 5/6 school.
A better comparison is Porter Moser. Each of the last 3 years since the final four appearance all the writers ask where he’s going to go. He’s gone now. I don’t want that for the Big East.
Mark Few is the exception to the overall rule: most of the best coaches in the smaller conferences jump to a power 5/6 school.
A better comparison is Porter Moser. Each of the last 3 years since the final four appearance all the writers ask where he’s going to go. He’s gone now. I don’t want that for the Big East.
The best thing for the conference, IMO, is to have two teams in the top 10 and four in the top 25 every year. Only matters to me if Seton Hall is one of those four teams. All of the programs have some level of history so the exposure of having great teams playing feature games will be what the conference needs. I really don’t think it’s that important that Georgetown, SJU, or even Depaul or one of those four teams to get more exposure. They just need to be competitive so the league doesn’t look too top-heavy.
That's exactly what we had in the IW, Desi,Angel,Deno,Cheese years. Nova being Nova winning another championship, some very good X teams, Marquette, and even Providence with Dunn and Bentil.
We should have let IW go to StJ it would have been good for the BE....
Now that is reasonable. I don't care about the lore of SJU or GT. We can be the dominant team in the NYC market, UConn will be there too. Nova dominates Philly market. After that, I don't care who the 3rd/4th "good team" is in any given year as long as SHU can be talked about in the same breath as Nova year in-year out.
I do think Nova has to, and will, maintain because of the recent NCs. That, and Jay Wright, mean you expect Nova to be a perennial Top 10. I'd like to be a perennial Top 25 for us striving for that Nova level.
Exactly...you can make the argument that Uconn has way more cache than SJU or GT to begin with. Give me SHU, Villanova, UConn and one of the Midwest schools in the Top 25 and we will get all the press we need.
The key is for the BE to have a strong non-conference schedule and to do well there. That will elevate the metrics of the conference as a whole. Then it is important that at least two teams contend for the regular season title with 2 or 3 with decent above .500 records. Those 5 will have standing in the tourney and a 6th may even sneak in. The key is a strong non-conference schedule with broad success by all of the BE teams, even those that do not have success within conference.
And the key is getting two teams in the Sweet 16 on a regular basis. That means you need teams that earn high seeds with a strong OOC like you said.
This. And I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about it.
It's not a pie. A bigger piece for another program does not mean a smaller piece for us. The stronger the league gets, driven by the individual strength of its programs, the better is it for everyone.
In 1985, when St. John's had the pieces to get to the Final Four, did that mean that everyone else had to sit back and watch and wait their turn, hoping that their day will come? Or did two other programs also have the pieces to get the Final Four? And what did the kids who were seniors in high school that spring think of it? Did they say, "Well, it looks like only St. John's, Villanova, and Georgetown are the places in the Big East worth going"? Or did they say, "Whoa, the Big East is legit. Maybe I can go to Seton Hall!"
Because that high school class of '85 was the kids who were college seniors in 1989. How did that work out?
The best thing for the conference, and the best way to maximize NCAA teams, is to have 8-9 great or good teams and 2 teams that get only a few BE wins. That's the way we can reach 9.
And I agree with some in saying that you do not want SJU and Gtown to be those 2 bad teams.
And I agree with some in saying that you do not want SJU and Gtown to be those 2 bad teams.
I think we want big east to be good. Top 3 basketball Conf every year.
A strong competitive Conf helps seton hall with Fox deal, exposure, recruiting, etc
This means we should root for all big east teams on OOC schedule.
however if St. John’s wins most of their OOC games and then loses all their big east games, I’m ok with it and do not think the big east needs a strong St. John’s to be good.
if we can have a top 3 Conf without St. John’s being good which is certainly possible, we should lose sleep and bringing the Whiteheads and the Richmonds of the world to the Hall are a direct result of St. John’s being a lower tier big east team, why would us fans want them good, if there are plenty other big east teams that can make noise.
A strong competitive Conf helps seton hall with Fox deal, exposure, recruiting, etc
This means we should root for all big east teams on OOC schedule.
however if St. John’s wins most of their OOC games and then loses all their big east games, I’m ok with it and do not think the big east needs a strong St. John’s to be good.
if we can have a top 3 Conf without St. John’s being good which is certainly possible, we should lose sleep and bringing the Whiteheads and the Richmonds of the world to the Hall are a direct result of St. John’s being a lower tier big east team, why would us fans want them good, if there are plenty other big east teams that can make noise.
I don't think anybody is debating that. I think the difference is whether we need to cherry pick specific schools that need to be successful.
This. And I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about it. Why does StJ specifically need to be good for the health of the BE? Why can't SHU and Providence turn into a powerhouses in order to help the BE succeed?
It seems as if posters are placing StJ on a pedestal above Seton Hall.
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