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Usage of the term "must win"

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hallfan101

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Feb 15, 2013
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I am having a debate with another fan about using the term "must win". Currently Seton Hall is a projected 3-5 seed respectively playing a current bubble Big East team on the road. I expect The Pirates to win in a battle tomorrow night. However this one individual constantly uses the term "must win". In my opinion a must win for this Seton Hall team would be a game like Saturday against a team like Georgetown. A game like that is a game you have to win because it is against an inferior team on your home floor, if you lose a game like that something is probably wrong.

A road game against Marquette is not a "must win". I wish I could say every game is a must win but being realistic, playing on the road in the Big East is very challenging especially against a team with a player like Markus Howard. I would like to know what others think of using the term "must win" with games like this, I think the term is over used. Of course any loss after a big win like Saturday is a step back, but a must win makes me think if we don't win the season goes down the drain with clearly is not the case.
 
I think a must win means theres a severe consequence if we don't win the game that cannot be made up. We can lose to Marquette and win the next 10. We can lose vs Georgetown and win the next 10. The first round of the tournament is a must win. For those of us that believe the sweet 16 is a measure of success, the second round game is a must win. These regular season games, there are no individual must win games at this point the way I see it.

For those that say the RU game is a must win. I see it as a game I want to win more than some of the others but not a must win. We can still have the greatest season in SHU history in the same season we lose to RU, in my opinion.
 
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Hopefully we don't need to use the term must win until the NCAA tournament.

No game is a must win unless you need to win it to get in the tournament or stay alive in the tournament.

Love the press and moving up the rankings but quite frankly we're not guaranteed a better draw just bc we get a better seed. See 2016 compared to 2017.
 
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I wouldn't call it a must win game. Losing to Marquette is a better loss than say losing to NC State . But this is a game we should expect to win if we are as good as we think they are.
 
hallfan101 said:
I am having a debate with another fan about using the term "must win". Currently Seton Hall is a projected 3-5 seed respectively playing a current bubble Big East team on the road. I expect The Pirates to win in a battle tomorrow night. However this one individual constantly uses the term "must win". In my opinion a must win for this Seton Hall team would be a game like Saturday against a team like Georgetown. A game like that is a game you have to win because it is against an inferior team on your home floor, if you lose a game like that something is probably wrong.

A road game against Marquette is not a "must win". I wish I could say every game is a must win but being realistic, playing on the road in the Big East is very challenging especially against a team with a player like Markus Howard. I would like to know what others think of using the term "must win" with games like this, I think the term is over used. Of course any loss after a big win like Saturday is a step back, but a must win makes me think if we don't win the season goes down the drain with clearly is not the case.
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Most over used phrase in sports.

Nice, maybe even great to have? yes. Must have? no
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
So we can't get a cushy seed if we don't win the Georgetown game? The committee must be watching that 1 specific game and saying Seton Hall you can go 17-1 in conference but if you lose to Georgetown 6 seed at best.
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We're not going 17-1 but losing to Gtown. Let's be realistic.
 
SPK145 said:
No it’s not, you’re not going to win them all, no team is. It’s about the overall record at the end of the season.
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Got to beat the mid to lower tier teams in this league because were going to lose some to the Novas, X and CUs
 
radecicco said:
Then every game is a must win by your logic.
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No, every game is not a must win. But beating the bubble teams, yes.The elite teams will win this game tonight. I believe we are an elite team, so it's a must win in my book
 
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kniespolice said:
We're not going 17-1 but losing to Gtown. Let's be realistic.
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Probably not but I am sure you can find a history of 1 loss conference teams and find out who that 1 loss was to and say how the hell did they lose to them. It happens. I wouldn’t doubt a team like Gonzaga or Wichita State has had year like that.
 
kniespolice said:
No, every game is not a must win. But beating the bubble teams, yes.The elite teams will win this game tonight. I believe we are an elite team, so it's a must win in my book
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What does your book say the consequence are if we lose tonight? Is the season over? 1st place out of reach?
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Probably not but I am sure you can find a history of 1 loss conference teams and find out who that 1 loss was to and say how the hell did they lose to them. It happens. I wouldn’t doubt a team like Gonzaga or Wichita State has had year like that.
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Comparing the Big East to the WCC or Valley is just foolish. The point is we are contending for the conference title and a very high seed in the NCAA - we need to treat tonight's game as must win.

The team cannot think 1-1 split on the road-trip is acceptable.
 
Vegas has the game as a pick'em tonight, by the way - I wish I had the insider information that makes many of us sure this is an easy take care of business W versus a lower tier team.

Looking forward to all the season is over posts during the game.
 
kniespolice said:
Comparing the Big East to the WCC or Valley is just foolish. The point is we are contending for the conference title and a very high seed in the NCAA - we need to treat tonight's game as must win.

The team cannot think 1-1 split on the road-trip is acceptable.
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I wouldn’t doubt it’s happened to Kentucky, Duke, or North Carolina either.

Of course they can’t right now. But if that happens they can’t beat themselves up for it either.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
What does your book say the consequence are if we lose tonight? Is the season over? 1st place out of reach?
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Lol I see you are sensational. The season is not over if we lose tonight, but we lose an important step up on Nova and X in the conference race. Marquette is not going to finish in the Top 4, we need to take care of business here.
 
kniespolice said:
Lol I see you are sensational. The season is not over if we lose tonight, but we lose an important step up on Nova and X in the conference race. Marquette is not going to finish in the Top 4, we need to take care of business here.
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We have a chance to be 2 up on X or Nova (with their match-up tomorrow night). Let's take advantage of it.
 
kniespolice said:
Lol I see you are sensational. The season is not over if we lose tonight, but we lose an important step up on Nova and X in the conference race. Marquette is not going to finish in the Top 4, we need to take care of business here.
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I see you lack an understanding of the word must. it would be great to push our conference lead. It's not a must.

It would be great it to win the lottery. It's not a must win.
 
This is a big game. A must win? Absolutely not.

Marquette is a top 50 opponent and we're on the road. This would be a fantastic win and continue to help set us up nicely in the conference title race. But if we lose, I'm not going to be panicking.
 
kniespolice said:
We have a chance to be 2 up on X or Nova (with their match-up tomorrow night). Let's take advantage of it.
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Let's take a look into the future. It's the 5 days after big east tournament and before the NCAA tournament. Let's assume we win the regular season and tournament. How many people so wrapped up in winning the conference will be saying winning the conference means NOTHING if we don't do anything in the NCAA tournament? Probably everybody. Because everybody knows this season is about the NCAA tournament. If we get to the elite 8 nobody will care if we finished in 1st or 4th in the big east except the day we raise the banner next year.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Let's take a look into the future. It's the 5 days after big east tournament and before the NCAA tournament. Let's assume we win the regular season and tournament. How many people so wrapped up in winning the conference will be saying winning the conference means NOTHING if we don't do anything in the NCAA tournament? Probably everybody. Because everybody knows this season is about the NCAA tournament. If we get to the elite 8 nobody will care if we finished in 1st or 4th in the big east except the day we raise the banner next year.
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Getting to the Elite 8 is going to be a lot easier road finishing 1st in the league, than if we finish 4th. If we finish 4th in the league we're not getting a Top 4 seed.
 
kniespolice said:
Getting to the Elite 8 is going to be a lot easier road finishing 1st in the league, than if we finish 4th. If we finish 4th in the league we're not getting a Top 4 seed.
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It's about matchups not seeds. We have no clue at this point. We could be a 3 seed who goes against a 14, 11, and 10 seed or plug whatever possible path from a 5,6, or 7 seed. If I recall X seemed to cruise as an 11 while us and Nova struggled. Anything can happen. Or we can be a 1 seed who goes against a 16, 8, and 4 seed. I've seen many people on here get a kick out of seeing the arrogant Nova fans win everything then lose in the first week of the dance. There are no guarantees what will be best.

At that point in time all that matters is if we are playing elite basketball. That's all we can control. It won't matter if we were 12-6 or 17-1. What matters is playing our best basketball or not playing our best basketball at that time.
 
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Not taking the results of the next 14 games into any consideration and not thinking about performance in the BET, what are the consequences of losing this game?

If this is a “must win”, dumb overused term, then certainly a loss would result in something that we cannot fathom. Do we miss the BET? The NCAAT? Do we have to publicly dismiss one or more of our players? There MUST be a dire, unthinkable potential result if we’re to lose given that it is a “must” win.

No, I think losing this game would be an average, and potentially expected result. It can probably be agreed that we will lose no fewer than 2 games and expectations are that we will lose no more than 6. If this is one of those 2-6 losses, I must say I’ll sleep tonight.
 
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sami said:
No, I think losing this game would be an average, and potentially expected result. It can probably be agreed that we will lose no fewer than 2 games and expectations are that we will lose no more than 6. If this is one of those 2-6 losses, I must say I’ll sleep tonight.
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I agree. I think the biggest thing is establishing a level of play. If they beat us and we play great ball, tip your cap and move on. The problem is we lack a consistency for 40 minutes. We are very fortunate to be 3-0 considering how we've had major issues in each of the 1st 3 games defending. At some point I'm really hoping to see Walker, Gordon, Cale, and Mamu get some extended run. We really need to develop these guys. To have them ready by March would be a huge bonus.
 
shu09 said:
This is a big game. A must win? Absolutely not.

Marquette is a top 50 opponent and we're on the road. This would be a fantastic win and continue to help set us up nicely in the conference title race. But if we lose, I'm not going to be panicking.
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Right. It's one of those games that would be fantastic (and pay seeding dividends) if we win, but not at all a bad loss if we don't. It doesn't make Seton Hall a bad team to lose this one, but winning would bring with it some additional esteem. This is one of those ones that, taken with a couple similar wins, gets you that enviable seed in March.
 
The only attitude a player and a coach can afford to take is that every game is a must win game. Otherwise, why play the game. You play the contest to win it. If there is any inkling that it is not devastating to lose, I don't want you playing for me. It's a contest. Play to win or don't play.

The banter about consequences about subjective evaluations by others, e.g. ranking, seeding etc., are all background noise. It is only about the win. Everything else will take care of itself.
 
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hallball said:
The only attitude a player and a coach can afford to take is that every game is a must win game. Otherwise, why play the game. You play the contest to win it. If there is any inkling that it is not devastating to lose, I don't want you playing for me. It's a contest. Play to win or don't play.

The banter about consequences about subjective evaluations by others, e.g. ranking, seeding etc., are all background noise. It is only about the win. Everything else will take care of itself.
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So a coach should never be cautious with a player with 20 games to go? If God forbid a guy gets nicked up pretty bad should we let them rest up or risk it and play the game as a must win if the guy wants to hobble back in the game?
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
So a coach should never be cautious with a player with 20 games to go? If God forbid a guy gets nicked up pretty bad should we let them rest up or risk it and play the game as a must win if the guy wants to hobble back in the game?
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You don't play a hurt kid. If he's healthy, play him and play to win. Losses can be explained and dissected. Losses may even be expected because the other team is overwhelmingly better. But you play the game to win. Especially in college hoops where everyone can be defeated, you play to win.
 
hallball said:
You don't play a hurt kid. If he's healthy, play him and play to win. Losses can be explained and dissected. Losses may even be expected because the other team is overwhelmingly better. But you play the game to win. Especially in college hoops where everyone can be defeated, you play to win.
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Of course you play to win, but within reason based on looking ahead to the marathon of the season. It’s different to play to win and treat a game as a must win.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Neither .... SHOULD WIN. This is a game we should win. The consequences if we don't are we are tied for 1st in the loss column and control our own destiny.
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I was being sarcastic. It’s a just another game to me. There will be more.
 
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