Notice the worst the Giants do in a season the better Reese's drafts look. There is a cause effect to that because the Giants draft earlier. Reese's self fulfilling prophecy will be drafting earlier and having a lot of cap space.
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But Mara also talked about how it was more than 3 seasons. He specifically mentioned with Francessa today the collapse the year before the previous 3 seasons where they had the division almost locked up before the collapse. He has clearly been talking out of both sides of his mouth. And Reese you know was fighting for his job with Mara talking about those losses you mention and the 2 unbeaten teams they almost took down at one point. Reese did acknowledge mistakes about the talent, but he clearly thinks neither him or Coughlin would be in this position if they were 9-7.
I can't wait to see the 2016 draft if they take the 6-8 DE from Oregon another JPP type freak or if their pick in the 2nd round is somebody like a Marvin Austin highest rated on their draft board or really change things up. Watch they take a WR in the 1st round. LOL!
Mara and Reese are all over the place. They came off significantly worse than the man walking out of the door. This is a big reason why they've had 3 consecutive losing years. It's not all the coach.
Coughlin looked like the inspirational leader and showing why he's received the outpouring of touching tributes by players that you don't see anywhere these days.
It's not good. And Mara offers Coughlin a job after he acknowledges the flawed roster? Unbelievable stuff.
They just took the heart out of the locker room too. Buckle your seat belts.
The staying on is ridiculous and Mara did acknowledge Coughlin said he does not want to be looking over somebody's shoulder. I mean is he trying to save face with that offer?
I'd love to see the Giants get Shaq Lawson (Clemson) in the draft. Lead the country in tackles for losses (23.5) and can play the run and rush the passer (82 tackles and 10.5 sacks). The kid will go in the first round for sure and is very fast and strong. I'd also like to see us get a LB. We should look to the free agent market for a few experienced safeties if they really want to make a jump. Note: I'm a huge Clemson fan so I'm partial but the kid is so much fun to watch.
His knee will be OK. Strained MCL. He will not be 100% for Monday night but he may play. He's 6-3, 270 and very quick and strong. He will be a very good pro IMO. With the Giants at #10 he may be a reach depending on how the draft goes but he will be gone by the 15th to 20th pick for sure. Rex Ryan who is a very good defensive talent evaluator loves him.Joey Bosa will be gone by the time the Giants pick so Lawson would be a good pick. What is the status of his knee injury he got against OU? Really need some speed on D also.
Joey Bosa will be gone by the time the Giants pick so Lawson would be a good pick. What is the status of his knee injury he got against OU? Really need some speed on D also.
I don't think he's trying to save face. It's shocking that he literally said they didn't give Coughlin enough talent this year and they want him to considering coming back to advise on personnel.
What if TC takes it? He might. Kim Jones reported it was possible. Today was messy and doesn't inspire leadership at a time they need it most.
My personal belief is that Coughlin and his staff did well with this roster in putting it in position to win games unfortunately the record didn't reflect it. All offseason they knew that Cruz (WR2) and Beason (MLB) were gambles off major injuries and that Beatty (LT) would be out in May, then they lost almost every unproven rookie they thought could play safety in Training Camp (Thomas, Bennett, Berhe). They did nothing to replace those important positions on a football field and had an indictable lack of depth behind them. But they hung in there well regardless.
The NFL had more than 50% of all its games decided by 7 points or less this year. The Giants played a ton of tight games and didn't pull them out for a combination of reasons including some poor game management at times for sure, but more importantly because of a fundamental flaw on defense and an alarming lack of depth again. This needs to be fixed for sustained success. How many times were the same guys beat over and over again in the final minute? They also lost 3 games when they scored 30, 35, and 49 points and a 4th in OT where they surrendered more than 200 yards in the final 15 game minutes. What strategy conceals that?
They need (in priority order):
1). A pass rush. Did they not learn anything from SB42 and SB46? But then again, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi were not drafted by Reese, LOL. A pass rush is the tide that rises all else. Get a premier player for once. They haven't done that since signing Antrel Rolle.
2). They need a complete set of new LB's and safeties. They tried to go cheap last offseason and it torched them. You cannot be in competitive games and expect to win by relying on the likes of Dahl, Meriweather, Taylor, Unga, Casillas, and Thomas to make stops in the back-7. Especially without a pass rush. They should've paid McCourty.
3). More help on the OL. Want to put Beatty back at tackle which is why they moved Pugh to guard after drafting Flowers? Fine. But you need more depth. Newhouse and Jerry? Please.
4). A second WR. I'm done with Reuben Randle. He cannot play. His the biggest stat-padder I've seen, a garbage time player. Never there for a big play; the INT in Washington, the INT versus the Jets, the drop in NO. Terrible situational player. Not a heady player. Do not need any more of these types on the team.
...Oh, and new coaching staff. LOL
His knee will be OK. Strained MCL. He will not be 100% for Monday night but he may play. He's 6-3, 270 and very quick and strong. He will be a very good pro IMO. With the Giants at #10 he may be a reach depending on how the draft goes but he will be gone by the 15th to 20th pick for sure. Rex Ryan who is a very good defensive talent evaluator loves him.
I'm a Clemson fan (going to the Natty this weekend) and Mackenzie Alexander is a very good player but he is only a sophomore. He should stay at Clemson for another year. Quick CB who needs some more seasoning IMO. Myles Jack is good but I think the Giants need to focus on the D line or LB for their first pick and get some experienced safeties in free agency.Every mock draft you see has the Giants with a different pick in the first round , the overwhelming first round predictions are on defense with names like Buckner, a DE from Oregon, to Alexander a CB from Clemson, to Myles Jack a LB from UCLA and even a RB, Elliott from OHIO St.and that will change every time a new mock draft is released. The question is with so many needs do the Giants return to best player available or do they go to best player available on defense or draft to fill a need like last year. What the Giants do in free agency will also affect their draft board and remember who the new coach is will play a role in what free agents will look at the Giants.
Going to be a very interesting off-season.
I'm a Clemson fan (going to the Natty this weekend) and Mackenzie Alexander is a very good player but he is only a sophomore. He should stay at Clemson for another year. Quick CB who needs some more seasoning IMO. Myles Jack is good but I think the Giants need to focus on the D line or LB for their first pick and get some experienced safeties in free agency.
Good summary Piratz. I would just add this observation . Just as we talk about depth with SH there is a definite need to add quality depth on the Giants. You note that we need to add a second WR , I agree but you need to add back-ups as every team loses players to injury. In addition to adding OL to fill out the starters do we really want back-ups like Jerry or Newhouse.
Since Reese is staying and the Giants are banking on the fact it was largely coaching, not personnel, pretty fair game to assess him and what's next. Good stuff here: http://www.bigblueview.com/2016/1/6/10721282/ny-giants-nfl-draft-jerry-reese-mid-to-late-roundpicks
From 2010-2013 only two of the 17 players selected, Jacquian Williams and Markus Kuhn, have accumulated a value above the average for the year and round in which they were drafted. There was an uptick in 2014, with Andre Williams (Round 4) and Devon Kennard (Round 5) both having an Approximate Value above where they were drafted.
Carl Banks' "Scholarship Players."
In addition their evaluation, I would also add that the Giants' performances in Rounds 1-3 in these years is even more indictable, especially the 2010-12 classes which should’ve been the leaders of the recent losing teams. Created a huge hole. It’s quite possible none of these players from those years will even be on the roster next season (Randle and Hosley should be gone without question). The only two worth a look are JPP and Prince and that’s lukewarm at best, IMO.
This part is baffling. Andre Williams?
"There was an uptick in 2014, with Andre Williams (Round 4) and Devon Kennard (Round 5) both having an Approximate Value above where they
were drafted."
Piratz, you should be the GM. Great summary.I don't think he's trying to save face. It's shocking that he literally said they didn't give Coughlin enough talent this year and they want him to considering coming back to advise on personnel.
What if TC takes it? He might. Kim Jones reported it was possible. Today was messy and doesn't inspire leadership at a time they need it most.
My personal belief is that Coughlin and his staff did well with this roster in putting it in position to win games unfortunately the record didn't reflect it. All offseason they knew that Cruz (WR2) and Beason (MLB) were gambles off major injuries and that Beatty (LT) would be out in May, then they lost almost every unproven rookie they thought could play safety in Training Camp (Thomas, Bennett, Berhe). They did nothing to replace those important positions on a football field and had an indictable lack of depth behind them. But they hung in there well regardless.
The NFL had more than 50% of all its games decided by 7 points or less this year. The Giants played a ton of tight games and didn't pull them out for a combination of reasons including some poor game management at times for sure, but more importantly because of a fundamental flaw on defense and an alarming lack of depth again. This needs to be fixed for sustained success. How many times were the same guys beat over and over again in the final minute? They also lost 3 games when they scored 30, 35, and 49 points and a 4th in OT where they surrendered more than 200 yards in the final 15 game minutes. What strategy conceals that?
They need (in priority order):
1). A pass rush. Did they not learn anything from SB42 and SB46? But then again, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi were not drafted by Reese, LOL. A pass rush is the tide that rises all else. Get a premier player for once. They haven't done that since signing Antrel Rolle.
2). They need a complete set of new LB's and safeties. They tried to go cheap last offseason and it torched them. You cannot be in competitive games and expect to win by relying on the likes of Dahl, Meriweather, Taylor, Unga, Casillas, and Thomas to make stops in the back-7. Especially without a pass rush. They should've paid McCourty.
3). More help on the OL. Want to put Beatty back at tackle which is why they moved Pugh to guard after drafting Flowers? Fine. But you need more depth. Newhouse and Jerry? Please.
4). A second WR. I'm done with Reuben Randle. He cannot play. His the biggest stat-padder I've seen, a garbage time player. Never there for a big play; the INT in Washington, the INT versus the Jets, the drop in NO. Terrible situational player. Not a heady player. Do not need any more of these types on the team.
...Oh, and new coaching staff. LOL
This part is baffling. Andre Williams?
"There was an uptick in 2014, with Andre Williams (Round 4) and Devon Kennard (Round 5) both having an Approximate Value above where they
were drafted."
Got it. 2014 draft in my opinion was terrible, particularly for RBs. WRs were really the only players draft that have performed in NFL.
He ain't no wellington. ..
When you're talking about rebuilding the Giant roster you have to factor in that there are 30 + players eligible for free agency and I can see a large number of them not being resigned plus there are others who will be cut to gain cap space and the players who may fall in that category would be Beatty, Cruz, Schwartz and Beason. The point is that there could be a huge number of new faces on this roster and bringing in that number of players who are more talented then they're replacing is a daunting challenge and one of the reasons I don't believe it can be done in one year despite what Reese thinks.
Agreed. The one positive about that list you mention is that other than Schwartz for 3/4 of a season, none of them contributed anything to team this year anyway. Beatty is probably the most intriguing one to me if they restructure because the nature of the injury isn't as extensive, he's in his prime, and he's at least an average OT, which they need on the RH side.
The other ones have such extensive injuries, age, and basically DINP's for two years that it's probably over. So it's an influx of cash. You're replacing nothing. I also would not pay Prince. He'd be about 4th or 5th on my defensive priority list behind pass rushers, 3-down LB, and safety. CB's are easier to find. Too many holes to fill and the middle of the field is more critical.
Plus you're also talking a team of "independent contractors" as Paul Schwartz put it one time. A bunch of new guys, a new coach, and an entirely new operation/culture for everyone. Will take some time, but you have a GM that's out of time. So you're likely going to be relying on an unproven to step in. That usually doesn’t work out well, especially in New York for a franchise coming off 3 consecutive losing seasons with a GM on the hot seat with a dire need to rebuild personnel.
Powder keg of circumstances. What if they go 6-10 again? Or worse? Patience with the new coach, or they blast out the GM?
10
LAQUON TREADWELL
WR, Ole Miss
Eli Manning will need more help along the line at some point, but ... man, Treadwell and Odell Beckham Jr. together? Much like the Beckham pick a couple years back, this would be a best-player-available choice of a prospect who just might be a superstar. Bonus: He's a tenacious blocker downfield in the run game.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/06/2016-nfl-mock-draft-laremy-tunsil-jared-goff
Something like this would make me very unhappy, unless the Giants were somehow able to address all of their other needs in free agency.
My biggest fear is that Reese knows he's on the hot seat, goes out and tries to make a splash similar to the "Dream Team" Eagles a few years back, and the entire thing falls apart.
It's an interesting predicament. Many don't believe this team has the talent to compete and a rebuild is in order, but the person making the calls thinks this team is a player or two away from contention. Will he make decisions based on improving the team in the short-term that may greatly impact the long-term prospects of the franchise? It'll be interesting.
Treadwell is a beast check out his performance in the Sugar Bowl on New Year's Day.3 TD catches including a one handed catch and is one of the most physical receivers I have ever seen. Dez Bryant without the baggage. He had a great year after a horrific injury last year. He is a junior and it is possible he may not declare. Jim Kelly's nephew is the QB and he and all the fans were chanting 1 more year for him after the Sugar Bowl.
This is a good draft and it really is going to be interesting with the Giants this offseason. The ND LB Jaylon Smith was a sure top 10 pick until his knee injury which changes things some.
Treadwell is a beast check out his performance in the Sugar Bowl on New Year's Day.3 TD catches including a one handed catch and is one of the most physical receivers I have ever seen. Dez Bryant without the baggage. He had a great year after a horrific injury last year. He is a junior and it is possible he may not declare. Jim Kelly's nephew is the QB and he and all the fans were chanting 1 more year for him after the Sugar Bowl.
This is a good draft and it really is going to be interesting with the Giants this offseason. The ND LB Jaylon Smith was a sure top 10 pick until his knee injury which changes things some.
Agreed. The one positive about that list you mention is that other than Schwartz for 3/4 of a season, none of them contributed anything to team this year anyway. Beatty is probably the most intriguing one to me if they restructure because the nature of the injury isn't as extensive, he's in his prime, and he's at least an average OT, which they need on the RH side.
The other ones have such extensive injuries, age, and basically DINP's for two years that it's probably over. So it's an influx of cash. You're replacing nothing. I also would not pay Prince. He'd be about 4th or 5th on my defensive priority list behind pass rushers, 3-down LB, and safety. CB's are easier to find. Too many holes to fill and the middle of the field is more critical.
Plus you're also talking a team of "independent contractors" as Paul Schwartz put it one time. A bunch of new guys, a new coach, and an entirely new operation/culture for everyone. Will take some time, but you have a GM that's out of time. So you're likely going to be relying on an unproven to step in. That usually doesn’t work out well, especially in New York for a franchise coming off 3 consecutive losing seasons with a GM on the hot seat with a dire need to rebuild personnel.
Powder keg of circumstances. What if they go 6-10 again? Or worse? Patience with the new coach, or they blast out the GM?
Lovie Smith has a lot of the prerequisites you'd be looking for, I think. Personally I'm a bit lukewarm on him right now, however, he has extensive NFL HC experience, has led a team to a SB, has a defensive lean, and seems good with the players.
Would be interesting if the Eagles go after McAdoo while we are holding our weaner trying to figure out what to do. That would put a dent in the Giants plans to either hire a HC and retain McAdoo or hire McAdoo. This whole process scares me but we could do much worse than Lovie Smith.Lovie Smith has a lot of the prerequisites you'd be looking for, I think. Personally I'm a bit lukewarm on him right now, however, he has extensive NFL HC experience, has led a team to a SB, has a defensive lean, and seems good with the players.