Carino on the Hall

[Stevie_H]

Might not agree because he did more than just co-earn the award with Wright based on past poor results..

He did so in grand faction with a fabulous year winning the Big East Tournament and beating 3 top 5 teams down the stretch with a sophomore dominated team.

And the Nova victory was not a fluke either as they beat us at home a few weeks prior by a point.

The end results were terrific, yes. His team was picked #7 in the preseason poll (closer to #10 than #6 in poll points) for a reason though.

IMO, it'd be a miss to say the "OMG look at what Seton Hall did" factor didn't play a major factor in his receiving the award. Especially so after the way the 14-15 season ended.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Agree and that's why Willard is not getting fired this season if we don't make the dance, nor should he.

What Gottfried did though doesn't compare to what Willard did thus far.

Despite my position - that I do not see progress over the long haul - I remain firmly of the mind that we should expect him to be here for three full years and only at that point if no further NCAA appearances have occurred since last year, then, the situation will get the "board of regents" treatment.

I'm also of another opinion, which I don't think has gotten a lot of traction - that trying times drive greater achievement out of certain people. I have every reason to believe that coach beats himself up at least as much, if not more than we do. For some coaches, that's enough for them to drive outwardly towards greater achievement. I tend to believe that coach is such a profound introvert that only when he is dragged kicking and screaming outside of his own bubble to face the direst clamoring, only then is he spurred to understand the need to excel to a greater degree.

When you're forced to stand at the end of the gangplank with the sharks circling below, perhaps at that moment, you understand the situation and the need. I think the extreme hot seat entering into last season was merited fully AND he responded well (and so did the team). My suspicion is that achievement of the championship gave him and the team such a sigh of relief that everyone could relax and go back to the older modes of operation (the ones where coach goes back inside his shell and the players do whatever they want of offense).

Where is that nasty-edged Willard this year? He went AWOL.

Bear in mind, I am not an armchair psychologist, I only play one on TV. (come on, man, smileys applied here)

In sum, he's coming back, no way does he deserve to be fired, no way there's a better replacement, and all that, but there are plenty of good reasons to turn up the heat! It worked - or so I think - so why should we do nothing but wanly wave our little flag and hope hope hope until the clock goes 0:00 again.

 

[Section112]

Where is that nasty-edged Willard this year? He went AWOL.
.

BP my friend - he doesn't have the answers on the bench this year (due to poor recruiting) to pull a player and sit him like he had last year. He can be nasty if you want to see a walk-on running the point or Soffer at the 3 or Anthony at Center. He really only has options at the PF position or the 3-guard line-up. Not enough bullets in his gun unfortunately. It's all recruiting IMO.

 

[TheBluePirate]

BP my friend - he doesn't have the answers on the bench this year (due to poor recruiting) to pull a player and sit him like he had last year. He can be nasty if you want to see a walk-on running the point or Soffer at the 3 or Anthony at Center. He really only has options at the PF position or the 3-guard line-up. Not enough bullets in his gun unfortunately. It's all recruiting IMO.

Well, my friend, there's that, and it's a great point. And it underpins why we have to consider years and years more waiting to see. My expectations are low, however, which is quite disappointing.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Despite my position - that I do not see progress over the long haul - I remain firmly of the mind that we should expect him to be here for three full years and only at that point if no further NCAA appearances have occurred since last year, then, the situation will get the "board of regents" treatment.

I'm also of another opinion, which I don't think has gotten a lot of traction - that trying times drive greater achievement out of certain people. I have every reason to believe that coach beats himself up at least as much, if not more than we do. For some coaches, that's enough for them to drive outwardly towards greater achievement. I tend to believe that coach is such a profound introvert that only when he is dragged kicking and screaming outside of his own bubble to face the direst clamoring, only then is he spurred to understand the need to excel to a greater degree.

When you're forced to stand at the end of the gangplank with the sharks circling below, perhaps at that moment, you understand the situation and the need. I think the extreme hot seat entering into last season was merited fully AND he responded well (and so did the team). My suspicion is that achievement of the championship gave him and the team such a sigh of relief that everyone could relax and go back to the older modes of operation (the ones where coach goes back inside his shell and the players do whatever they want of offense).

Where is that nasty-edged Willard this year? He went AWOL.

Bear in mind, I am not an armchair psychologist, I only play one on TV. (come on, man, smileys applied here)

In sum, he's coming back, no way does he deserve to be fired, no way there's a better replacement, and all that, but there are plenty of good reasons to turn up the heat! It worked - or so I think - so why should we do nothing but wanly wave our little flag and hope hope hope until the clock goes 0:00 again.

You do not see progress over the long haul? February 2017 looks no different to you than March 2010? I can completely understand people wanting us to be further along but in no way is it even debatable that there has been no progress over the long haul

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

The progress started when we landed the great recruiting class by hiring two of the player's coaches. It should have extended beyond one season, and to date it hasn't. I'm looking forward to Powell's continued development, and Cale was a great pick-up, but where is the progress beyond that?

We have recruited two players at a position where a logjam already exists, and still have no PG or legit front-court player which may be crucial should AG go pro somewhere. Where is the progress?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

BP my friend - he doesn't have the answers on the bench this year (due to poor recruiting) to pull a player and sit him like he had last year. He can be nasty if you want to see a walk-on running the point or Soffer at the 3 or Anthony at Center. He really only has options at the PF position or the 3-guard line-up. Not enough bullets in his gun unfortunately. It's all recruiting IMO.

I'm a fan of Willard, but my biggest complaint is how we used the bench. And I'm not saying I even want the bench players to play more. At some point I would have hoped that the bench would be used more as a motivational tool for bad shots or missing defensive assignments.

 

[TheBluePirate]

You do not see progress over the long haul? February 2017 looks no different to you than March 2010? I can completely understand people wanting us to be further along but in no way is it even debatable that there has been no progress over the long haul

First, fair question and you are always seeking to be a fair poster, so I tip my cap to you for that.

If we talk about progress to mean "programmatic progress in toto" (administration, education, character, alignment to mission, cleanness, and so on), the progress is astounding, night and day, no question, no debate. In my first "broadside" above, I acknowledge this and I am also asking that since it has been well achieved, that it no longer be considered miraculous. It is achieved, the new bar is set.

If we talk about progress in record and post-season achievement, we've got enough data points to see that we're still trending in the lower-half of the BE.

If we talk about progress in team members gaining team-based knowledge and imparting it more quickly to new team members, year of year, the kind where, last year's gains in moving and passing are retained at this year's start, so that the arduous re-learning exercise from nothing is avoided - you know - like other elite teams - well, there's hardly any progress there.

So - it does come down to what areas are examined.

Do you partition progress into different buckets? And if you do, what are they, and how do you rate them?

I am asking in the genuine spirit of inquiry.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

First, fair question and you are always seeking to be a fair poster, so I tip my cap to you for that.

If we talk about progress to mean "programmatic progress in toto" (administration, education, character, alignment to mission, cleanness, and so on), the progress is astounding, night and day, no question, no debate. In my first "broadside" above, I acknowledge this and I am also asking that since it has been well achieved, that it no longer be considered miraculous. It is achieved, the new bar is set.

If we talk about progress in record and post-season achievement, we've got enough data points to see that we're still trending in the lower-half of the BE.

If we talk about progress in team members gaining team-based knowledge and imparting it more quickly to new team members, year of year, the kind where, last year's gains in moving and passing are retained at this year's start, so that the arduous re-learning exercise from nothing is avoided - you know - like other elite teams - well, there's hardly any progress there.

So - it does come down to what areas are examined.

Do you partition progress into different buckets? And if you do, what are they, and how do you rate them?

I am asking in the genuine spirit of inquiry.

BP I think you are a good poster as well. Definitely a huge fan of Hall basketball and have its best interest at heart.

As for gauging progress of course there are multiple areas based on where he started.

What was priority #1 when hired? Clean up the program. Did he do that? Yes.
Priority #2 I would say is getting us back to being a factor in the conference. I would say winning a conference title is pretty good way of showing you are relevant.
Priority #3 I would say is do it consistently by recruiting well. Singh didn't work out as we all hoped but including him we have 4 straight years of an ESPN 4 star recruit as well a 5 star recruit and a good number of 3 star recruits. And I hope to see that we get 2 or 3 of the studs in 2018.

But come on guys let's wait to judge Willard when it's over. Let's get to the dance 2 years in a row. Let's stop the Willard talk for 3 weeks. The team reads this board. Let's let them know we are 100% behind them these 4 games and that we believe if they give it their all and try not to do too much that we can get back to the dance. No reason we can't go at least 3-1 and if we play hard and get a couple bounces to go our way 4-0 is possible.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Okay. I'm going to try my best and just shut my yap regarding the coaching and the program until we're done for the year. I promise (er - I'll really really try - I hope I can keep my promise).

(Do I need to give up criticizing the coach for Lent too? )

 

[Pirate Russ]

But come on guys let's wait to judge Willard when it's over. Let's get to the dance 2 years in a row. Let's stop the Willard talk for 3 weeks. .

Good point. A lot can happen in the next few weeks. The reality is that if we sneak into dance and then win a game or two, the season looks totally different (as will our opinion of the coaching job).

 

[NYC Pirate]

Results are results. You can't kill him for the bad years and then say his good season is really not as good as it seems . COY case closed

Plus the season ended poorly in large part because the marquee player could not adjust to the altitude and had an abortion of a game.

 

[hallgrad80]

Good point. A lot can happen in the next few weeks. The reality is that if we sneak into dance and then win a game or two, the season looks totally different (as will our opinion of the coaching job).

I have no problem waiting to see what the season's results are as HoopsFan suggests and his request is fair and reasonable. Yet there must come a time where the body of his work is sufficient to be able to reach a fair decision as to whether he's the right person to run our program and the " Wait till next year " answer no longer remains valid.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

I too will wait until March 12 before criticizing the coach again, but then all bets are off.

 

[ironlung75]

I agree let's give up criticism for Lent. It is The Catholic thing to do. Plus then you don't have to give up booze. Our lives will be better and maybe something good will come out of this.

 

[radecicco]

So we'll give up criticizing for Lent (LOL) and start up again just in time for recruiting season.

 

[Piratz]

I don't think promises should be made that cannot be kept, lol. No matter how grim, nothing is over until March 4th. Then you have results in.

And even then there's still the BET.

This team mails one in tomorrow night and gets beat by Xavier - or worse, either DePaul or Georgetown - and this place will be on fire.