Collusion

[SPK145]

Absolutely. Add Trump's tax returns to that list as well.

Trump's tax returns should have been released for reasons having nothing to do with this investigation.

But what do you hope to see on a tax return? A tax return may not have where and how you earned your income. Does your's have that info on it?

In light of the above, I always surmised that he wouldn't release his tax returns because he ether isn't earning as much income as he'd like you to believe or he isn't paying as much tax as you'd think due to the myriad of legal tax deductions and credits inserted purposely into the tax code by many that are now called tax "loopholes", LOL.

 

[HALL85]

I think he would probably prefer an opposing body without subpoena power over his tax records and business dealings... especially after Cohen was reported to have flipped on Trump.

The idea that Trump would be sitting on something in 2018 to help him win in 2020 just seems uncharacteristically Trumplike.

I don't discount Trump in this matter, since he seemed to execute a pretty flawless strategy to win the nomination and Presidency.

 

[Merge]

Trump's tax returns should have been released for reasons having nothing to do with this investigation.

But what do you hope to see on a tax return? A tax return may not have where and how you earned your income. Does your's have that info on it?

My taxes aren't complex, though I do read through approx 40+ commercial loan files every year as a part of my audits. There is a lot of information in Trump's return that could shed some light on his foreign business operations that would be worth knowing. For example - How much of Trump's revenue is from foreign countries? What would be the impact to Trump financially if they cut him off? How much is Trump indebted to foreign countries? Do they have the ability and what would be the impact if they called their debts?

 

[Merge]

I don't discount Trump in this matter, since he seemed to execute a pretty flawless strategy to win the nomination and Presidency.

I mean... agree to disagree on that one. Him running a good campaign doesn't make him infallible. He's out there now saying that it is illegal to investigate something that isn't a crime. He just says whatever he wants and hopes idiots believe it. If he had something actually concrete, I think he would use it.

 

[SPK145]

My taxes aren't complex, though I do read through approx 40+ commercial loan files every year as a part of my audits. There is a lot of information in Trump's return that could shed some light on his foreign business operations that would be worth knowing. For example - How much of Trump's revenue is from foreign countries? What would be the impact to Trump financially if they cut him off? How much is Trump indebted to foreign countries? Do they have the ability and what would be the impact if they called their debts?

Yup, for sure but without detail, it's pretty specious.

But it will allow you to spin another tall-tall collusion conspiracy, .

 

[HALL85]

I mean... agree to disagree on that one. Him running a good campaign doesn't make him infallible. He's out there now saying that it is illegal to investigate something that isn't a crime. He just says whatever he wants and hopes idiots believe it. If he had something actually concrete, I think he would use it.

He’s outsmarted a lot of people...that’s a fact. And yes, his technique is to throw a lot out and create chaos/confusion, “Idiots”? Insulting the electorate...guess you haven’t learned from HRC’s blunder.

He was so adamant stating “no collusion” and “witch-hunt”, and repeating it over and over, it was reasonable to think he knew he was innocent. It strikes that there is another shoe that he’s going to drop. But, hey, we can revisit this thread and bust each other’s balls when that happens!

 

[Section112]

I mean... agree to disagree on that one. Him running a good campaign doesn't make him infallible. He's out there now saying that it is illegal to investigate something that isn't a crime. He just says whatever he wants and hopes idiots believe it. If he had something actually concrete, I think he would use it.

Listen Obama said a lot of things that idiots believed (you don't have to change your doctor or I like Hillary - lol). He just did it in a nicer more classy way which I appreciate frankly compared to the nasty tweet storm. In the end it's what politicians do.

 

[Merge]

Yup, for sure but without detail, it's pretty specious.

But it will allow you to spin another tall-tall collusion conspiracy, .

Regardless of which party holds the office, knowing how much leverage a country has over the president is vital. I know we disagree on most policy, but we should at least agree on that.

And in this specific case. Trump's relationship with Russia began in the 1980's soon after KBG General Kryuchkov sought to improve foreign agent recruitment using money, flattery, and trying to obtain compromising information. The memo literally cited “his attitude towards women is also of interest.” “Is he in the habit of having affairs with women on the side?”

After he married Ivana, Czech spies watched their family in the US and spied on Ivana and Don Jr when they went back to the Czeck republic.

He was a targeted asset of Russian intelligence for 30 years.
Honestly if Russia has nothing at all on Trump, they were really bad spies.

I really don't want that to be true and I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[Merge]

He’s outsmarted a lot of people...that’s a fact. And yes, his technique is to throw a lot out and create chaos/confusion, “Idiots”? Insulting the electorate...guess you haven’t learned from HRC’s blunder.

He was so adamant stating “no collusion” and “witch-hunt”, and repeating it over and over, it was reasonable to think he knew he was innocent. It strikes that there is another shoe that he’s going to drop. But, hey, we can revisit this thread and bust each other’s balls when that happens!

I mean, I'm not running for office. But if you believe it is illegal to investigate anything that isn't a crime.... then you're an idiot.

I'm sure we will revisit continuously... Hopefully one of those days will be when we see the actual Mueller report.

 

[Merge]

Listen Obama said a lot of things that idiots believed (you don't have to change your doctor or I like Hillary - lol). He just did it in a nicer more classy way which I appreciate frankly compared to the nasty tweet storm. In the end it's what politicians do.

My doctor never changed. I still go to Summit Medical Group.

That was the case for the far majority of Americans.
Some Americans did have a change, but was that number materially different than the number that change annually anyway when their company changes their insurance carrier?

There's being wrong and intentionally lying.
Trump lies more than any president ever has, and hopefully more than any president ever will.

 

[Section112]

My doctor never changed. I still go to Summit Medical Group.

That was the case for the far majority of Americans.
Some Americans did have a change, but was that number materially different than the number that change annually anyway when their company changes their insurance carrier?

There's being wrong and intentionally lying.
Trump lies more than any president ever has, and hopefully more than any president ever will.

I love how Merge feels like he has to answer everything. Gets all fired up ...

 

[Merge]

I love how Merge feels like he has to answer everything. Gets all fired up ...

Meh... Am waiting on something from a client. I'm bored. lol

 

[HALL85]

My doctor never changed. I still go to Summit Medical Group.

That was the case for the far majority of Americans.
Some Americans did have a change, but was that number materially different than the number that change annually anyway when their company changes their insurance carrier?

There's being wrong and intentionally lying.
Trump lies more than any president ever has, and hopefully more than any president ever will.

Trump entered the pool of politics where lying, embellishing, over the top scare-tactics have been common-place. And it's not a partisan thing. We can each make a long list of politicians that are outrageous and their party doesn't reign them in. Does he lie more and set a new standard for embellishment? Absolutely. You keep missing the obvious point of his strategy and that was speaking to the working Americans that had been ignored with an actual vision. You would think and hope the DNC would learn that lesson this time around.

 

[Merge]

rump entered the pool of politics where lying, embellishing, over the top scare-tactics have been common-place. And it's not a partisan thing. We can each make a long list of politicians that are outrageous and their party doesn't reign them in.

We've always help the president to a different standard though.

If I said to you that Trump acted Presidential today, vs if I said Trump acted like a congressman today - You probably have a basic understanding of what I am saying for each and yet they are very different.

You might think that Presidents shouldn't be held to higher standards than any other elected leader, but we can agree to disagree on that one as well.

You keep missing the obvious point of his strategy and that was speaking to the working Americans that had been ignored with an actual vision. You would think and hope the DNC would learn that lesson this time around.

I'm not missing that at all and it is one of the reasons why Buttigieg is my favorite Dem candidate so far. He's hitting the messaging exactly how I believe the democrats should be.

 

[Section112]

In the stupidity category Trump overruled his dummy Devos and said they are not cutting Special Olympics funding. This had to be the one of the dumbest thing they've done to date IMO. See they don't need the Russians - they can screw things up all by themselves.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

In the stupidity category Trump overruled his dummy Devos and said they are not cutting Special Olympics funding. This had to be the one of the dumbest thing they've done to date IMO. See they don't need the Russians - they can screw things up all by themselves.

Wrong. I'm sure a theory will emerge it was the Russians who told them not to fund Special Olympics. It always comes back to Russia. Seton Hall lost to Wofford because of Russia. Check Putin's bracket.

 

[HALL85]

We've always help the president to a different standard though.

If I said to you that Trump acted Presidential today, vs if I said Trump acted like a congressman today - You probably have a basic understanding of what I am saying for each and yet they are very different.

You might think that Presidents shouldn't be held to higher standards than any other elected leader, but we can agree to disagree on that one as well.



I'm not missing that at all and it is one of the reasons why Buttigieg is my favorite Dem candidate so far. He's hitting the messaging exactly how I believe the democrats should be.

What does acting presidential mean? That’s up for interpretation. IMO Trump and Clinton failed that test miserably. I think the President should be held to a high standard as should Congress. What does that mean, higher standard? Give me an example.

I am very interested to see how the Democratic primary is going to play out. What is going to win out? Ideology, leadership, character? I think we can agree 2016 was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Stevie_H]

Listen Obama said a lot of things that idiots believed (you don't have to change your doctor or I like Hillary - lol). He just did it in a nicer more classy way which I appreciate frankly compared to the nasty tweet storm. In the end it's what politicians do.

I like to call it ordering from the menu of dishonesty. You've got a range from small things such as only highlighting the positives of something while ignoring the negatives (appetizers), to bold face lies (entrees), to outright purposeful deceit of the American people (the soup to nuts). The difference with Trump is the sheer volume and stupidity of the lies. That is indisputable. We've never seen anything like it and I hope, for the sake of the country, we never will again. It's wholly inappropriate and unproductive.

 

[Section112]

I like to call it ordering from the menu of dishonesty. You've got a range from small things such as only highlighting the positives of something while ignoring the negatives (appetizers), to bold face lies (entrees), to outright purposeful deceit of the American people (the soup to nuts). The difference with Trump is the sheer volume and stupidity of the lies. That is indisputable. We've never seen anything like it and I hope, for the sake of the country, we never will again. It's wholly inappropriate and unproductive.

Yea but if he says it he believes it. Doesn't that account for anything? lol

 

[Merge]

In the stupidity category Trump overruled his dummy Devos and said they are not cutting Special Olympics funding. This had to be the one of the dumbest thing they've done to date IMO. See they don't need the Russians - they can screw things up all by themselves.

Needed something to distract from getting rid of covering pre-existing conditions, letting kids stay on their parents plans, removing the expansion on medicaid etc...

 

[Merge]

What does acting presidential mean? That’s up for interpretation.

Maybe Trump derangement syndrome is misunderstood. Maybe it is normalizing behavior to the point where people no longer recognize the character and behavior that we expect of a president.

You used to know what that word meant, and referred to it many times on this board.

 

[HALL85]

Maybe Trump derangement syndrome is misunderstood. Maybe it is normalizing behavior to the point where people no longer recognize the character and behavior that we expect of a president.

You used to know what that word meant, and referred to it many times on this board.

TDS has nothing to do with that. As I said earlier, we had two candidates that failed my test of acting Presidential. And quite frankly, Obama failed that as well (and maybe that led to the choices we had in 2016). Acting Presidential to me is being accountable, fiscally responsible, leading (everyone), making the tough decisions, providing an inspirational vision. It's not being divisive, partisan or just trying to be "cool". Acting Presidential left the building a decade ago....

 

[Merge]

TDS has nothing to do with that. As I said earlier, we had two candidates that failed my test of acting Presidential. And quite frankly, Obama failed that as well (and maybe that led to the choices we had in 2016). Acting Presidential to me is being accountable, fiscally responsible, leading (everyone), making the tough decisions, providing an inspirational vision. It's not being divisive, partisan or just trying to be "cool". Acting Presidential left the building a decade ago....

Exactly. See, we all have a general idea of what that means. We hold the president to a different standard than other politicians. Indeed, there were days where Obama did not act as presidential as I would have liked, but not remotely close to what Trump has done to debase the office.

"Little pencil neck Adam Schiff" - what have we become where thousands of people cheer the president saying something like that.

 

[HALL85]

Exactly. See, we all have a general idea of what that means. We hold the president to a different standard than other politicians. Indeed, there were days where Obama did not act as presidential as I would have liked, but not remotely close to what Trump has done to debase the office.

"Little pencil neck Adam Schiff" - what have we become where thousands of people cheer the president saying something like that.

I expect Congress to be held to that same standard.

I'm not going to defend Trump with the nonsense he says, but there are other politicians that say even worse and are applauded. Let's just be consistent.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Exactly. See, we all have a general idea of what that means. We hold the president to a different standard than other politicians. Indeed, there were days where Obama did not act as presidential as I would have liked, but not remotely close to what Trump has done to debase the office.

"Little pencil neck Adam Schiff" - what have we become where thousands of people cheer the president saying something like that.

What have we become? Soft.

People in Congress have been sticking it to the American people for years all while saying it with nice wording and a nice tone. I guess that's ok.

 

[seton1996]

Exactly. See, we all have a general idea of what that means. We hold the president to a different standard than other politicians. Indeed, there were days where Obama did not act as presidential as I would have liked, but not remotely close to what Trump has done to debase the office.

"Little pencil neck Adam Schiff" - what have we become where thousands of people cheer the president saying something like that.

I am not a huge fan of Trump, and sure he does a lot of stupid things and things that were not in the past viewed as "presidential", and he gets called out all the time.

But why is it okay for other politicians to call him names, label him things like racist or make threats to him? Why is it okay for the governor of PR to threaten to punch Trump in the face?

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot call Trump out for not being presidential, but then allow others to act in a way that you should never act towards the president of this country.

 

[Merge]

But why is it okay for other politicians to call him names, label him things like racist or make threats to him? Why is it okay for the governor of PR to threaten to punch Trump in the face?

None of those things are ok though...Who is saying they are ok? Most of that same stuff was thrown at Bush and Obama as well and they were able to stay out of the mud and not exacerbate the issues. There is nothing to justify the president acting like this. It shouldn't take a democrat being president to see it more clearly.

After Obama said “The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home"

A poster here commented

" Sometimes I don't think Obama really understands the significance of the office and the impact of saying irresponsible things."

How far the bar has been lowered...

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

None of those things are ok though...Who is saying they are ok? Most of that same stuff was thrown at Bush and Obama as well and they were able to stay out of the mud and not exacerbate the issues. There is nothing to justify the president acting like this. It shouldn't take a democrat being president to see it more clearly.

Nobody is saying they are ok, but nobody is condemning them either. Heck people say they have proof ot this or that, but get a pass from showing their proof. When is the last time you posted anything about people being disrespectful to the president? 2016? Only time condemnation comes is when Trump says something. Rightfully so at times, wrong at other times.

 

[Merge]

Nobody is saying they are ok, but nobody is condemning them either. Heck people say they have proof ot this or that, but get a pass from showing their proof. When is the last time you posted anything about people being disrespectful to the president? Only time condemnation comes is when Trump says something. Rightfully so at times, wrong at other times.

As I said before, I do hold the president to a higher standard and I might comment on them if they were my representatives.
I don't think I, or anyone here was criticizing politicians who said Obama doesn't love America or that we need to send him back to Kenya... I didn't take that to mean anyone here was supportive of those statements.

and I am assuming you are referring to politicians speaking of proof of collusion?
We have proof that they were trying to collude, and that President Trump himself dictated the lie to cover it up, and that Hope Hicks told the white house counsel that no one would ever see the evidence. That is all public knowledge now.

Mueller did not feel it (or any other potential information) rose to the level of a criminal conspiracy, and I respect that but lets not pretend it didn't happen.

 

[seton1996]

None of those things are ok though...Who is saying they are ok? Most of that same stuff was thrown at Bush and Obama as well and they were able to stay out of the mud and not exacerbate the issues. There is nothing to justify the president acting like this. It shouldn't take a democrat being president to see it more clearly.

After Obama said “The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home"

A poster here commented

" Sometimes I don't think Obama really understands the significance of the office and the impact of saying irresponsible things."

How far the bar has been lowered...

Exactly my point, PR governor threatens to punch our President in the face and no one is outraged, upset, calling for guy to be impeached, go to jail, have Congress investigate, etc. Just reported as he said it, and it is all okay because he said it about Trump.

As we were all thought in grammar schools, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Merge]

PR governor threatens to punch our President in the face and no one is outraged, upset, calling for guy to be impeached, go to jail, have Congress investigate, etc. Just reported as he said it, and it is all okay because he said it about Trump.

Should I search this board to see the outrage when Romney's son said he wanted to punch Obama, or Gingrich when he said he wanted to knock him out?

 

[HALL85]

Should I search this board to see the outrage when Romney's son said he wanted to punch Obama, or Gingrich when he said he wanted to knock him out?

Why search? Just ask. It's wrong on all counts.

 

[HALL85]

Full report being issued, with redactions, no executive privilege by mid April. Barr agrees to testify and Mueller assisting with redactions. About as transparent as we can ask for. Barr doing it by the book.

 

[seton1996]

Should I search this board to see the outrage when Romney's son said he wanted to punch Obama, or Gingrich when he said he wanted to knock him out?

No need those things are wrong as well. I am talking/ concerned about outrage from the media, talking heads and politicians who like to get on Trump for being a jerk but don’t see it when their side act like jerks to the president.

 

[Merge]

Why search? Just ask. It's wrong on all counts.

Exactly. Someome stupid said soemthing stupid in each case. Gingrich was fairly similar to what the PR gov said... But not similar to having the president say something like that in my opinion.

 

[Merge]

Full report being issued, with redactions, no executive privilege by mid April. Barr agrees to testify and Mueller assisting with redactions. About as transparent as we can ask for. Barr doing it by the book.

As long as congress gets to see the full report, sounds good to me.

 

[HALL85]

As long as congress gets to see the full report, sounds good to me.

Don’t the redactions apply to Congress as well?

 

[seton1996]

Don’t the redactions apply to Congress as well?

From what I heard the grand jury stuff would be redacted for Congress as well, stuff doing with national security would be redacted but members of Congress would probably be able to view in chambers similar to other classified type items.

 

[Merge]

From what I heard the grand jury stuff would be redacted for Congress as well, stuff doing with national security would be redacted but members of Congress would probably be able to view in chambers similar to other classified type items.

The Barr letter today referenced the reputation of 3rd parties which I can understand could be potentially problematic, but it certainly wouldnt be classified. As long as there is proper oversight, thats fine.

 

[seton1996]

The Barr letter today referenced the reputation of 3rd parties which I can understand could be potentially problematic, but it certainly wouldnt be classified. As long as there is proper oversight, thats fine.

As someone said on MSNBC today (missed her name), she felt a lower staffer name could/should be redacted to protect them, but she felt people like Donald Jr, Kushner or cabinet members should be included.