Collusion

[cernjSHU]

I don't get the war and killing analogy and I don't care if a 50 year old guy is having sex with a 20 year old, but we are talking about the President of the country and an intern. If you don't get the abuse of power in a position like this, you also probably have a soft spot for Harvey Weinstein.

How is that an analogous? Weinstein would ruin careers or get a starlet into a movie for sex. No such quid pro would was going on with Clinton. Completely different. You are saying abuse of power due to his position only. Not what the actions would be for denying him sex or giving him sex.

My analogy to war was that 20 year old women are not kids and adults. That was it.

 

[HALL85]

How is that an analogous? Weinstein would ruin careers or get a starlet into a movie for sex. No such quid pro would was going on with Clinton. Completely different. You are saying abuse of power due to his position only. Not what the actions would be for denying him sex or giving him sex.

My analogy to war was that 20 year old women are not kids and adults. That was it.

Well he did ruin Lewinsky’s life and career. Look, we’re not going to agree on this. If you don’t get the influence someone in his position has in a situation like that, I can’t help you. He’s a POS.

 

[cernjSHU]

Well he did ruin Lewinsky’s life and career. Look, we’re not going to agree on this. If you don’t get the influence someone in his position has in a situation like that, I can’t help you. He’s a POS.

So no man in power can have an affair with a young women subordinate? This is plainly not reality. Your hatred for Clinton has you sounding like a snowflake millennial Lol. Btw Lewinsky herself has always said that it was a consensual relationship.

As an aside, who ruined Lewinski’s life was Linda Tripp. This was a personal affair that she turned public.

 

[HALL85]

So no man in power can have an affair with a young women subordinate? This is plainly not reality. Your hatred for Clinton has you sounding like a snowflake millennial Lol. Btw Lewinsky herself has always said that it was a consensual relationship.

As an aside, who ruined Lewinski’s life was Linda Tripp. This was a personal affair that she turned public.

Like I said, we’ll have to agree to disagree, and I won’t stoop to your level of name calling. Affairs happen, and I’m not judging that, but you clearly don’t understand the power and influence a President has to take advantage of a kid like Lewinsky. Very different from a common variety affair. If it was the President of a company I would feel the same way. And yes, he should know better. That’s what you sign up for. Hence, the POS view.

 

[knowknow456]

Like I said, we’ll have to agree to disagree, and I won’t stoop to your level of name calling.

You must be giving up name calling for Lent. Good for you. Now where did I leave my crack pipe?

 

[HALL85]

You must be giving up name calling for Lent. Good for you. Now where did I leave my crack pipe?

Because cern has historically been a well informed poster that I enjoy debates and discussions (even though we disagree more often than not)....you on the other hand, do not fit that description.

 

[knowknow456]

Because cern has historically been a well informed poster that I enjoy debates and discussions (even though we disagree more often than not)....you on the other hand, do not fit that description.

So you do stoop to name calling.

 

[HALL85]

So you do stoop to name calling.

If someone is going to be a constant dick, yes. But mostly I ignore those folks. You have probably noticed that, but maybe not.

 

[knowknow456]

If someone is going to be a constant dick, yes.

So someone being mean to you justifies name calling.

I will refer you to the Luke 6:32-33 and leave it at that.

 

[HALL85]

So someone being mean to you justifies name calling.

I will refer you to the Luke 6:32-33 and leave it at that.

Or I could just put you on "Ignore"...

 

[SPK145]

They discussed what he would be allowed to talk about in an open hearing.
Everyone who has every testified before congress has done the same thing.

You still sticking to this? 10 hours???

And Cohen’s credibility takes further hits with the revelation from his own attorney that he did seek a pardon.

 

[Merge]

You still sticking to this? 10 hours???

And Cohen’s credibility takes further hits with the revelation from his own attorney that he did seek a pardon.

Do you think interviewing someone before a hearing is illegal or against house rules?
It isn't. It is literally part of the process" To testify, a witness must be invited by a committee. Before officially inviting a witness, committee staff identify and often interview prospective witnesses."

Do you know how many times and how many hours other witnesses were interviewed prior to any previous testimony by the house? I am going to assume you don't... So why is it that you are talking about something that is perfectly legal and within the rules like it is a nefarious plot by democrats? He had two hearings scheduled, one of which was public and they obviously would need to coordinate what Cohen could and could not discuss.

On the second part, yes.
I'm not sure why he would say no to congress and then Lanny Davis would say he did.
Unless Cohen was playing a "technically correct" card where he didn't actually ask Trump for a pardon but asked his attorney to inquire... Which in my opinion would still show he was not acting in good faith at the hearing and does hurt his credibility.

 

[Section112]

Saw an interview with Senator Coons this morning and he tipped his hand I believe. Sounds like Dems think the collusion thing won't be proven but other stuff will be by the Southern District. They asked if a sitting President would be indicted and he said he was not sure but thought once he leaves the Presidency he will. I had also heard that from a friend who is very political so it makes sense to me that if nothing huge comes out of the Mueller report they will just wait and pounce once he's out of office.

 

[Merge]

Saw an interview with Senator Coons this morning and he tipped his hand I believe. Sounds like Dems think the collusion thing won't be proven but other stuff will be by the Southern District.

I didn't quite get the same read that Dems do not think collusion will be proven.
I think the hand tipping was that indictments against Trump are becoming more likely than not regardless of the Mueller report. My impression has been that if Mueller finds some evidence of conspiracy and the DOJ refuses to act, the SDNY indict Trump for state crimes. If the Mueller report shows no evidence of a conspiracy, Barr will issue the report and the SDNY will not do anything until Trump is out of office.

 

[Pirata]

Based on her statement today that she will not pursue impeachment, my guess is parts of the Mueller Report were leaked to Pelosi. She is using that info to be pictured as the magnanimous uniter.

 

[Section112]

Based on her statement today that she will not pursue impeachment, my guess is parts of the Mueller Report were leaked to Pelosi. She is using that info to be pictured as the magnanimous uniter.

Or she knows the southern district has something better. Who knows?

 

[HALL85]

Based on her statement today that she will not pursue impeachment, my guess is parts of the Mueller Report were leaked to Pelosi. She is using that info to be pictured as the magnanimous uniter.

Smart move on her part. Since it looks like no collusion, drop the whole impeachment idea and focus on winning the 2020 election. As we saw in 2016 "Not Trump" was an absolute dumb strategy. DNC and the nominee needs to articulate their vision for the country that will resonate. Right now it looks like climate change and Medicare for all, but that's subject to change based on who emerges as the candidate.

 

[cernjSHU]

No one knows anything until Mueller drops that report. I still say you will not see at the earliest August. I think Pelosi doesn't have a clue what the Mueller report says. But this is a brilliant tactic on her part. She is saying that impeachment is not what she wants to do and will not pursue unless there is something so compelling and bi partisan. Thus, she has set the stage of not one of these people who just want to impeach no matter what.

1) She is right. IT must be compelling too impeach. When you shoot at the King, it must be a kill shot.
2) She looks like the adult in the room and sets her credibility out front in front of her own party and the Republicans and the public
3) She knows impeachment goes no where because the trial is in the Senate.
4) If she does move to go forward with impeachment, then that signals to everyone compelling evidence.

I think it is brilliant strategy on her part no matter what the report states. I have not been a fan of Pelosi but since she has been Speaker the second time, she has really impressed me with her maneuvering in the political minefield.

 

[Merge]

I think it is brilliant strategy on her part no matter what the report states. I have not been a fan of Pelosi but since she has been Speaker the second time, she has really impressed me with her maneuvering in the political minefield.

Agreed.Supporting impeachment without compelling evidence would be terrible politics.
It's the smart stance to have if she knows Mueller has nothing, but it would also be the smart stance to have if she knows Mueller has damning evidence as well.

Heading into the primary season, it just make sense to remove impeachment from the political discussions. The party should be united that they do not support impeachment (without damning evidence) and believe the decision to remove Trump from office should be left to the voters.

 

[HALL85]

No one knows anything until Mueller drops that report. I still say you will not see at the earliest August. I think Pelosi doesn't have a clue what the Mueller report says. But this is a brilliant tactic on her part. She is saying that impeachment is not what she wants to do and will not pursue unless there is something so compelling and bi partisan. Thus, she has set the stage of not one of these people who just want to impeach no matter what.

1) She is right. IT must be compelling too impeach. When you shoot at the King, it must be a kill shot.
2) She looks like the adult in the room and sets her credibility out front in front of her own party and the Republicans and the public
3) She knows impeachment goes no where because the trial is in the Senate.
4) If she does move to go forward with impeachment, then that signals to everyone compelling evidence.

I think it is brilliant strategy on her part no matter what the report states. I have not been a fan of Pelosi but since she has been Speaker the second time, she has really impressed me with her maneuvering in the political minefield.

Well, the report has now dropped. To be honest, I didn’t think it would be this soon either. One thing we do know, is releasing it on a Friday afternoon has driven the MSM off the ledge....lol

 

[SPK145]

Wow, what a waste of 2 years.

 

[HALL85]

With the new disclosure that Manafort shared internal polling data with his Russian contact with ties to Russian intelligence, can we all agree that collusion can no longer be considered a hoax and there is evidence that the Trump campaign was working with Russia?

Care to comment on your conspiracy theory?

 

[Merge]

Care to comment on your conspiracy theory?

Still too many questions at this point. I've maintained that I will accept whatever the outcome is of Mueller's report but we dont really know what it says yet.

I'd like to see Muellers take on the Trump tower meeting and Manaforr sharing polling data specifically.
Barr's report also notes other matters were farmed out for further action. What are those matters?

I hope we get to see Mueller's report soon whatever it says and can move on from there.

 

[HALL85]

Still too many questions at this point. I've maintained that I will accept whatever the outcome is of Mueller's report but we dont really know what it says yet.

I'd like to see Muellers take on the Trump tower meeting and Manaforr sharing polling data specifically.
Barr's report also notes other matters were farmed out for further action. What are those matters?

I hope we get to see Mueller's report soon whatever it says and can move on from there.

I highly doubt we will ever see the report, but keep hoping. So no collusion, no conspiracy by Trump or his campaign and no recommendations for indictments. How about we start legislating.

 

[Merge]

I highly doubt we will ever see the report, but keep hoping. So no collusion, no conspiracy by Trump or his campaign and no recommendations for indictments. How about we start legislating.

Like I said, I'd like to know how Mueller felt about Trump Jr trying to obtain damaging info on Hillary from the Russian government and Manafort giving polling data to Kilimnik. Was that data never accesses by the troll farm?

Congress needs to see the report before we can move on. If they do so in a classified setting I'll accept that but even then it will be subject to partisan spin.

After 2 years Mueller did not exonerate Trump from Obstruction. Why? Was it an issue related to interpretation of law or subject matter?

Just way too many questions left open to give an honest opinion either way but I will agree the little we know is good news for Trump.

 

[afghan whigs]

 

[SPK145]

The report should released to the public as soon as reasonably feasible.

 

[HALL85]

Like I said, I'd like to know how Mueller felt about Trump Jr trying to obtain damaging info on Hillary from the Russian government and Manafort giving polling data to Kilimnik. Was that data never accesses by the troll farm?

Congress needs to see the report before we can move on. If they do so in a classified setting I'll accept that but even then it will be subject to partisan spin.

After 2 years Mueller did not exonerate Trump from Obstruction. Why? Was it an issue related to interpretation of law or subject matter?

Just way too many questions left open to give an honest opinion either way but I will agree the little we know is good news for Trump.

My guess is that Trump operates on his business instincts and applied them in his Presidential run. When you own a business, you can change course when it suits you. He was changing campaign managers like underwear and running at a frenetic pace in the political pool that he had little experience. Throwing a lot of stuff against the wall while sticking to his message (jobs and security-wall)...I don't think anyone (including Trump) thought he was going to win. So now we know he and his campaign did not collude AND apparently they were approached on at least two occasions by Russian operatives and rebuffed them.

I always thought it felt far-fetched that he colluded or conspired with Russia. Comey and McCabe look even worse now. Good thing they released their books last year. Actually thought Trump was on a suicide mission to attack the FBI (partisan corruption) and MSM (fake news), but not only has he been right on both, he's also beaten them both now.

Dems need to be careful with requesting the full report. What if it there is nothing to indicate obstruction and it brings into play a muddier situation with the dossier and how the FISA warrant got directed. Be careful what you wish for....might hand him the 2020 election on a silver platter. Shouldn't they be focused on getting the best candidate with a stronger message?

 

[Merge]

AND apparently they were approached on at least two occasions by Russian operatives and rebuffed them.

I mean... That's just not accurate.
Trump Jr went to a meeting to obtain damaging information on Hillary which he believed to be from the Russian government. How are you getting to that being the campaign rebuffing collusion attempts?

The best case here is that they tried to collude but there is not sufficient evidence to prove that it went somewhere.

.

I always thought it felt far-fetched that he colluded or conspired with Russia.

I didn't because they tried to.

Comey and McCabe look even worse now.

How so?

Dems need to be careful with requesting the full report. What if it there is nothing to indicate obstruction and it brings into play a muddier situation with the dossier and how the FISA warrant got directed.

It won't. Trump could have declassified the FISA documents if it was going to help him. We kept hearing about how Ohr, Page and Stzrok were bad actors and their closed door testimony was damming but when it was released recently there was nothing there at all.

Congress and the public should see the full Mueller report when possible. Let the chips fall wherever they may.

might hand him the 2020 election on a silver platter. Shouldn't they be focused on getting the best candidate with a stronger message?

Congress fighting to get the full Mueller report does not prevent a primary from occurring.

 

[HALL85]

I mean... That's just not accurate. Trump Jr went to a meeting to obtain damaging information on Hillary which he believed to be from the Russian government. How are you getting to that being the campaign rebuffing collusion attempts? Should I believe your theory vs. what Barr indicated?

The best case here is that they tried to collude but there is not sufficient evidence to prove that it went somewhere. Not what Barr said, but keep telling yourself differently.

I didn't because they tried to. Nope, not what Barr stated.

How so? Because Comey and McCabe tried to give the impression Russia had either compromised Trump. Two guys that were canned and now even more justified that Trump fired them.

It won't. Trump could have declassified the FISA documents if it was going to help him. We kept hearing about how Ohr, Page and Stzrok were bad actors and their closed door testimony was damming but when it was released recently there was nothing there at all. Time will tell.

Congress and the public should see the full Mueller report when possible. Let the chips fall wherever they may. I'm fine with that...have said that all along.

Congress fighting to get the full Mueller report does not prevent a primary from occurring. There's this thing called a distraction. Hopefully, they learned their lesson. Or they can insult half the electorate again...that worked out really well.

 

[CaptBob]

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

This conclusion hopefully gets people to think for themselves. Anyone who paid attention once a month over the last 2 years knows how Liberals couldn't wait for Mueller to destroy Trump. They also know Conservatives were telling everyone not to pay attention to the Mueller investigation because Mueller has an agenda against Trump. Now we have this conclusion and in a matter of seconds Conservatives now have a use for the Mueller report so it's good after being terrible for 2 years and Liberals who couldn't wait for the Mueller report to finish because it would destroy the president, now it wasn't a good report. Neither side is in pursuit of justice. This is a game for them to get the desired results they want at no matter the cost, which is our tax dollars.

 

[Merge]

Should I believe your theory vs. what Barr indicated?

My Theory? It is not a theory. Trump Jr walked into a room with Manafort and Kushner expecting help from the Russian government. "If it's what you say it is, I love it" - That doesn't appear to be rebuffing to me.

Not what Barr said, but keep telling yourself differently.

He didn't say the campaign didn't try to collude. Just that Mueller did not establish (prove) that members of the campaign conspired and coordinated with election interference.

Nope, not what Barr stated.

Barr did not opine on Trump Jr agreeing to meet with Russians. Don't know what Mueller said yet.

Because Comey and McCabe tried to give the impression Russia had either compromised Trump. Two guys that were canned and now even more justified that Trump fired them.

Neither did that. They believed there was enough there to warrant an investigation though. Nothing wrong with that. Mueller didn't give thoughts on if Trump was compromised by Russia. That was not within his purview.
For all we know Mueller may have stated that Russia helped Trump because they have leverage over him. I'm not suggesting it did, but you are giving a fairly broad exoneration of everything without seeing the report.

 

[Merge]

and Liberals who couldn't wait for the Mueller report to finish because it would destroy the president, now it wasn't a good report.

No one is saying it isn't a good report. None of us have seen the report. All we have is a summary from Barr that leaves many questions open. I trust the process and would like to see the report and have said since the beginning that I will accept the outcome from the report.

I see no reason to change that now. Lets see the report.

Neither side is in pursuit of justice.

Not true at all. I don't want the gaming that is about to unfold. Throw the cards on the table and lets move on.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

No one is saying it isn't a good report. None of us have seen the report. All we have is a summary from Barr that leaves many questions open. I trust the process and would like to see the report and have said since the beginning that I will accept the outcome from the report.

I see no reason to change that now. Lets see the report.



Not true at all. I don't want the gaming that is about to unfold. Throw the cards on the table and lets move on.

You can't see the report immediately. It has to be reviewed 100 times to make sure nothing of national security gets out.

It never matters who the President is, the other side of the aisle always plays games. Republicans did with Obama and Democrats are now doing it with Trump. So many of our best and brightest from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc can't come together to put America over party. Just because you don't want gaming doesn't mean it's not happening. It's happening.

 

[Merge]

You can't see the report immediately. It has to be reviewed 100 times to make sure nothing of national security gets out.

Of course. I am just saying that democrats are not out criticizing the Mueller report.

It never matters who the President is, the other side of the aisle always plays games. Republicans did with Obama and Democrats are now doing it with Trump.

If we find out that a foreign country helps Biden with the 2020 election. Members of Biden's campaign were courting help from that country. Members of his campaign had significant contacts with members of that country of which they lied about ALL of them... will you want an investigation into that?

Yes, partisan politicians play partisan politics but sometimes there is an underlying pursuit of justice.

 

[Belluno]

I think it is Obama and Clinton's turn in the barrel. And you can squeeze in Brennan, Clapper,Comey, Lynch and a host of other Obama administration people.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

If we find out that a foreign country helps Biden with the 2020 election. Members of Biden's campaign were courting help from that country. Members of his campaign had significant contacts with members of that country of which they lied about ALL of them... will you want an investigation into that?

Yes, partisan politicians play partisan politics but sometimes there is an underlying pursuit of justice.

If Biden did that investigate him for 3 months if you can't find anything move on. 2 years is insane. If you are a justice warrior and time has is of no issue for you, you should be calling an investigation into 30,000 emails being bleached away as well as more Trump investigations. My opinion it's only going to divide the country more if you investigate Trump or Hillary. Seems like people are only willing to unite if things go their way. Sad.

 

[shu09]

 

[Merge]

If Biden did that investigate him for 3 months if you can't find anything move on. 2 years is insane. If you are a justice warrior and time has is of no issue for you, you should be calling an investigation into 30,000 emails being bleached away as well as more Trump investigations. My opinion it's only going to divide the country more if you investigate Trump or Hillary. Seems like people are only willing to unite if things go their way. Sad.

Hillary deserved the investigation into her e-mails. I agreed with that then and was critical of how she handled her e-mail. She sent classified e-mail through her personal account and did not follow through on the appropriate related guidelines.

but... she was investigated.

Investigations don't occur on your timetable. They take how long they take. Think about that for a second. After 2 years, Mueller felt he could not conclude that Trump did not obstruct justice.

I'm not suggesting anything needs to go my way, I am just saying we should understand what the report says. If Barr's report is an accurate characterization of Mueller's report then I will never bring up Trump/Russia again (outside of acknowledging that I was wrong)