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Georgia opening up

shu09 said:
They are. Just as people are being urged to get tested like crazy, there is big money in testing.
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I get why you say they are. You follow people on twitter that are telling you lies and you trust them and then tell others they are brainwashed by the media they follow.

But no... Hospital workers are not over inflating Covid deaths. They are being compensated in a pandemic environment because there is extra work they need to do.
 
HALL85 said:
Not likely, in fact the reverse is more likely. Hospitals have been incentivized to report deaths as COVID.
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A person goes to the hospital with Covid. They have a chest x-ray.

If they live and go home, the hospital gets reimbursed $x.

If they die and the hospital says they died of Covid they get reimbursed $x+

Is that how it works?
 
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HALL85 said:
Marge isn’t getting the coding part.
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No, I get it. They get paid when someone has Covid.
Covid goes on the death certificate and your opinion (key word there) is that the Covid deaths are overstated because someone who dies of cancer and has covid is listed as a Covid death.

My view, as supported by several studies, is that the deaths due to Covid are actually understated because many states did not have the diagnostic tools available at the time the excess deaths were occurring.
 
shu09 said:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Which part wasn't accurate? You have spent a lot of time here being critical of where people consume their news, and yet posted that "2020 is on track to have fewer deaths than many recent years."

Anyone following Covid as closely as any of here should know instantly that is not correct.

Hope you aren't following that guy anymore. He is either lying intentionally or just completely ignorant.
 
knowknow456 said:
A person goes to the hospital with Covid. They have a chest x-ray.

If they live and go home, the hospital gets reimbursed $x.

If they die and the hospital says they died of Covid they get reimbursed $x+

Is that how it works?
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The following should not be interpreted to mean that hospitals are falsely coding patients as Covid. I am just posting the fact that when a Medicare patient is coded Covid, they get a 20% premium.



The CARES Act provided for a 20% add-on to the inpatient prospective payment system (PPS) DRG rate for COVID-19 patients for the duration of the public health emergency. CMS states that it will identify discharges of an individual diagnosed with COVID-19 using the following ICD-10 diagnosis codes:

  • U07.1 (COVID-19) for discharges occurring on or after April 1, 2020
  • B97.29 (Other coronavirus as the cause of diseases classified elsewhere) for discharges occurring on or after Jan 27, 2020 and on or before March 31, 2020

www.aha.org

Coronavirus Update: CMS Releases Guidance Implementing CARES Act Provisions | AHA

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) yesterday released new guidance implementing several provisions included in the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act. These provisions include:
www.aha.org www.aha.org
 
Last edited:
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Pirata said:
The following should not be interpreted to mean that hospitals are falsely coding patients as Covid. I am just posting the fact that when a Medicare patient is coded Covid, they get a 20% premium.



The CARES Act provided for a 20% add-on to the inpatient prospective payment system (PPS) DRG rate for COVID-19 patients for the duration of the public health emergency. CMS states that it will identify discharges of an individual diagnosed with COVID-19 using the following ICD-10 diagnosis codes:

  • U07.1 (COVID-19) for discharges occurring on or after April 1, 2020
  • B97.29 (Other coronavirus as the cause of diseases classified elsewhere) for discharges occurring on or after Jan 27, 2020 and on or before March 31, 2020

www.aha.org

Coronavirus Update: CMS Releases Guidance Implementing CARES Act Provisions | AHA

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) yesterday released new guidance implementing several provisions included in the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act. These provisions include:
www.aha.org www.aha.org
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Thank you. The byzantine world of hospital reimbursement is a complicated issue but I am willing to learn. Specifically I would like to understand more about the following statement

HALL85 said:
Hospitals have been incentivized to report deaths as COVID
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The CARES Act you are referring to specifically addresses an imbalance between Medicare reimbursement rates and other reimbursement rates. The coding takes place for treatments performed while the patient is alive so treating a living Covid patient is what triggers the incentive. Is there an additional incentive for a negative patient outcome (i.e., the patient died)?
 
knowknow456 said:
The coding takes place for treatments performed while the patient is alive so treating a living Covid patient is what triggers the incentive. Is there an additional incentive for a negative patient outcome (i.e., the patient died)?
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The patient was alive while being treated. 20% premium for treatment if they had Covid. I don't believe deaths are reported to Medicare.
 
Pirata said:
The patient was alive while being treated. 20% premium for treatment if they had Covid. I don't believe deaths are reported to Medicare.
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I think we agree hospitals were incentivized to code medical procedures as Covid related while the patients were alive. So the question remains why and how are hospitals incentivized to report deaths as Covid related.
 
Merge said:
No, I get it. They get paid when someone has Covid.
Covid goes on the death certificate and your opinion (key word there) is that the Covid deaths are overstated because someone who dies of cancer and has covid is listed as a Covid death.

My view, as supported by several studies, is that the deaths due to Covid are actually understated because many states did not have the diagnostic tools available at the time the excess deaths were occurring.
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Our resident Pharma expert (over 30 years!) has responded with silence and mockery to avoid answering our questions. Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt. He might be waiting for a call back from one of the many, many, many experts he has on speed dial. You know my first boss told me early in my career when someone doesn't answer an honest question, they've honestly answered the question. It was advice that has served me well.
 
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Merge said:
No, I get it. They get paid when someone has Covid.
Covid goes on the death certificate and your opinion (key word there) is that the Covid deaths are overstated because someone who dies of cancer and has covid is listed as a Covid death.

My view, as supported by several studies, is that the deaths due to Covid are actually understated because many states did not have the diagnostic tools available at the time the excess deaths were occurring.
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merge, here’s a example of how things get coded. You also need to factor in the timing of some of these episodes. An accident victim (trauma) comes into the ER, and unfortunately after a few hours of lifesaving measures, passes. Several blood panels are run on him when he arrived in the ER and turns out he was positive for COVID. He was treated and died as a victim of a trauma but is listed as a COVID patient.

As I said earlier, the coding of deaths either way are not going to have a material impact on the overall number. We are definitely seeing an increase in deaths in other areas related to the pandemic (suicide, heart disease, etc.).

Pirata’s info is correct on coding.
 
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HALL85 said:
He was treated and died as a victim of a trauma but is listed as a COVID patient.
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Welcome back. And I said it would never happen!

So a man is a trauma victim, is treated as such and dies. It turns out he had Covid-19 so all the lifesaving treatments are now coded at a premium, as allowed by law. The death certificate says Covid-19.

How and why are hospitals incentivized to report his death as Covid-19 if all the lifesaving treatments are already being reimbursed with a premium? Please check with your vast network of contacts to help answer this question.
 
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HALL85 said:
merge, here’s a example of how things get coded. You also need to factor in the timing of some of these episodes. An accident victim (trauma) comes into the ER, and unfortunately after a few hours of lifesaving measures, passes. Several blood panels are run on him when he arrived in the ER and turns out he was positive for COVID. He was treated and died as a victim of a trauma but is listed as a COVID patient.
Click to expand...

The Underlying cause of death is what the CDC is using for their count. Those are deaths due to covid or with Covid but the cause is not distinguishable. (i.e. someone with COPD AND Covid dies) . That accident victim WOULD NOT be listed as a Covid related death on their death certificate.


"This section on the death certificate is for reporting the sequence of conditions that led directly to death. The immediate cause of death, which is the disease or condition that directly preceded death and is not necessarily the underlying cause of death (UCOD), should be reported on line a. The conditions that led to the immediate cause of death should be reported in a logical sequence in terms of time and etiology below it. The UCOD, which is “(a) the disease or injury which initiated the train of morbid events leading directly to death or (b) the circumstances of the accident or violence which produced the fatal injury” (7), should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I "


HALL85 said:
We are definitely seeing an increase in deaths in other areas related to the pandemic (suicide, heart disease, etc.).
Click to expand...


Citation needed.
 
Merge said:
The Underlying cause of death is what the CDC is using for their count. Those are deaths due to covid or with Covid but the cause is not distinguishable. (i.e. someone with COPD AND Covid dies) . That accident victim WOULD NOT be listed as a Covid related death on their death certificate.


"This section on the death certificate is for reporting the sequence of conditions that led directly to death. The immediate cause of death, which is the disease or condition that directly preceded death and is not necessarily the underlying cause of death (UCOD), should be reported on line a. The conditions that led to the immediate cause of death should be reported in a logical sequence in terms of time and etiology below it. The UCOD, which is “(a) the disease or injury which initiated the train of morbid events leading directly to death or (b) the circumstances of the accident or violence which produced the fatal injury” (7), should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I "





Citation needed.
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Appreciate that but episodes of care get miscoded often whether intentional or not. The original point was that there is a significant delta in the increase in deaths this year that are not from COVID. Will be interesting to do a look back and see which causes increased.
 
HALL85 said:
Appreciate that but episodes of care get miscoded often whether intentional or not. The original point was that there is a significant delta in the increase in deaths this year that are not from COVID. Will be interesting to do a look back and see which causes increased.
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We've gone from "Hospitals have been incentivized to report deaths as COVID. " to maybe there are mistakes?

Miscoding (if occurring) could occur on the other side as well. I doubt a material impact.

Would also still like to see support for suicides and heart disease deaths being up.
 
Merge said:
Would also still like to see support for suicides and heart disease deaths being up.
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Same here. The data over time will ultimately show the impact of the isolation hangover. Some sooner (mental health, suicides, etc), and some later (diabetes, heart disease).
 
HALL85 said:
Same here. The data over time will ultimately show the impact of the isolation hangover. Some sooner (mental health, suicides, etc), and some later (diabetes, heart disease).
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weird you made it seem like you knew it as fact. guess not.

heres something that came out today regarding suicide/mental health. essentially the increase was happening regardless of covid.

"actors contributing to deaths of despair include hopelessness, cynicism, poor interpersonal skills and conflict and failure in social relationships"

sanford.duke.edu

Stories | Sanford School of Public Policy

Public policy scholar Nicholas Carnes at the Sanford School receives National Science Foundation award for research on lack of working class people in public office.
sanford.duke.edu sanford.duke.edu
 
Hi All. I would like to happily announce that I won my towns "Citizen of the Year" award. As I told you guys several months ago I won "Citizen of the Month". That automatically put me in the running for "Citizen of the Year". It was great getting interviewed by the Mayor on zoom and explaining why I have decided to shelter in place. I did mention to the Mayor that my hope is to leave the house at some point in 2021. But if the Covid numbers are still high, I guess it is what it is. I will definitely stay in my house for the next 6 months or so. At that point it would be 15 months of staying at home!

The Mayor said I won Citizen of the Year for my courage of taking the simple act of staying home. The Mayor mentioned my actions have saved lives and he wishes that more community members take my lead if they can. I want to thank everyone on this board as I continue to strive to be a role model during this terrible pandemic.
 
shufan1993 said:
Hi All. I would like to happily announce that I won my towns "Citizen of the Year" award. As I told you guys several months ago I won "Citizen of the Month". That automatically put me in the running for "Citizen of the Year". It was great getting interviewed by the Mayor on zoom and explaining why I have decided to shelter in place. I did mention to the Mayor that my hope is to leave the house at some point in 2021. But if the Covid numbers are still high, I guess it is what it is. I will definitely stay in my house for the next 6 months or so. At that point it would be 15 months of staying at home!

The Mayor said I won Citizen of the Year for my courage of taking the simple act of staying home. The Mayor mentioned my actions have saved lives and he wishes that more community members take my lead if they can. I want to thank everyone on this board as I continue to strive to be a role model during this terrible pandemic.
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Link, please.
 
this guys mayor

giphy-downsized.gif
 
shufan1993 said:
Hello. As I stated months ago. I don't provide the link to posters like yourself that have openly made fun of me. You can use a simple search engine called google.
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@donnie_baseball I just want to confirm you can navigate through the Google search tool. You will find the article. The article also includes the interview between myself and the Mayor. I am wearing a mask on the Zoom interview.

The Mayor asked me if I wanted to come to his office for the interview. But I let him know I have been home since March and I don't plan on getting out anytime soon.
 
shufan1993 said:
Nope. Not how posters treated me when I was warning about the virus. If posters were nicer to me I would. Thanks for understanding.
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Nope, if you don't provide a link it shows that you are a fake.
 
shufan1993 said:
@donnie_baseball I just want to confirm you can navigate through the Google search tool. You will find the article. The article also includes the interview between myself and the Mayor. I am wearing a mask on the Zoom interview.

The Mayor asked me if I wanted to come to his office for the interview. But I let him know I have been home since March and I don't plan on getting out anytime soon.
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if you got the award for "simply staying at home" the mayor would never ask you to go to his office.

what town are you from?
 
shufan1993 said:
Hi All. I would like to happily announce that I won my towns "Citizen of the Year" award. As I told you guys several months ago I won "Citizen of the Month". That automatically put me in the running for "Citizen of the Year". It was great getting interviewed by the Mayor on zoom and explaining why I have decided to shelter in place. I did mention to the Mayor that my hope is to leave the house at some point in 2021. But if the Covid numbers are still high, I guess it is what it is. I will definitely stay in my house for the next 6 months or so. At that point it would be 15 months of staying at home!

The Mayor said I won Citizen of the Year for my courage of taking the simple act of staying home. The Mayor mentioned my actions have saved lives and he wishes that more community members take my lead if they can. I want to thank everyone on this board as I continue to strive to be a role model during this terrible pandemic.
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Congratulations.
 
knowknow456 said:
Six drops in the bucket
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Yep. We should stop criticizing these numbers. Far fewer than 1 million deaths (over nearly one year) in a country of 330 million from a highly contagious virus (even more so than originally thought) with a low death rate is a success.
 
shu09 said:
Yep. We should stop criticizing these numbers. Far fewer than 1 million deaths (over nearly one year) in a country of 330 million from a highly contagious virus (even more so than originally thought) with a low death rate is a success.
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We've come quite a long way if fewer than a million is now considered to be a success.
 
Well, well, well. Look what's happening. Cuomo advocates for what I and others have been saying for months.

The shutdowns did the job they wanted: tanked the economy in order to get Trump voted out. Now we can re-open!

 
Under a million deaths is a success which we accomplished because we shut down to defeat Trump?

Again... these shutdowns had nothing to do with Trump until Trump made them about Trump.
He gambled on his messaging and got it wrong.

Had he tried to unify the country on a message of defeating the virus, he would have won reelection.
 
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