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No surprise here

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...34-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-04-16

More than 4 in 10 Americans are feeling lonelier now than ever before as a result of social distancing during the coronavirus outbreak, according to a survey of 1,055 people commissioned by the University of Phoenix published in April. Or consider the roughly 35.7 million Americans who live alone; they have potentially had no meaningful social contact at all for the past few months as a large swath of the country has sheltered in place at home.
 
The point is that if you look at every states by itself, you will see your theory about tying the national increase to "isolation" is probably not correct. A lot of people praised Florida in their Covid response for the limited restrictions, right? Overdoses increased 37%.

I'm not ignoring the trends look bad, I just disagree with where you are placing the blame.
As if to say all other things being equal, if we did not have any Covid restrictions last year that overdoses and childhood obesity would both be down compared to where they are now?
So you don’t think there are short and long term negative impacts from covid isolation?
 
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...34-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-04-16

More than 4 in 10 Americans are feeling lonelier now than ever before as a result of social distancing during the coronavirus outbreak, according to a survey of 1,055 people commissioned by the University of Phoenix published in April. Or consider the roughly 35.7 million Americans who live alone; they have potentially had no meaningful social contact at all for the past few months as a large swath of the country has sheltered in place at home.


Good link. Hope you read it.

" The study analyzed prescription claims filled between Jan. 19 and March 15 of this year among a sample of more than 31.5 million commercially-insured individuals, and found that claims peaked during the week ending March 15, when the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19 was declared a pandemic."

Before any restrictions were in place. Isolation didn't cause that.
 
Good link. Hope you read it.

" The study analyzed prescription claims filled between Jan. 19 and March 15 of this year among a sample of more than 31.5 million commercially-insured individuals, and found that claims peaked during the week ending March 15, when the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19 was declared a pandemic."

Before any restrictions were in place. Isolation didn't cause that.
Yeah, because they didn't have the remainder of 2020 available for the article. Those numbers have increased even more since then. Are you denying the quote posted from the article that clearly states the prescription effect from isolation???

More than 4 in 10 Americans are feeling lonelier now than ever before as a result of social distancing during the coronavirus outbreak, according to a survey of 1,055 people commissioned by the University of Phoenix published in April.
 
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So you don’t think there are short and long term negative impacts from covid isolation?

No necessarily. Just saying I think 85 is overstating the impact and implying the isolation as the cause for any negative trend. Like I said, if restrictions were no blame for these trends - the impact would be more pronounced in areas with more restrictions but that is not what the data shows.
 
No necessarily. Just saying I think 85 is overstating the impact and implying the isolation as the cause for any negative trend. Like I said, if restrictions were no blame for these trends - the impact would be more pronounced in areas with more restrictions but that is not what the data shows.
I never said it was the only cause, but experts (and the data) support that it has been a major contributing factor (and will continue to be so).
 
No necessarily. Just saying I think 85 is overstating the impact and implying the isolation as the cause for any negative trend. Like I said, if restrictions were no blame for these trends - the impact would be more pronounced in areas with more restrictions but that is not what the data shows.

Why do you assume that? Man, you love to twist yourself into stubborn pretzels to never admit you might be mistaken.
 
I never said it was the only cause, but experts (and the data) support that it has been a major contributing factor (and will continue to be so).

You can go with your experts, but so far, the data does not support that overdoses have increased as a result of isolation from the pandemic. If it did, there would be a positive correlation for states with the most restrictions.
 
Not really. You're comparing a known (trends today) to an unknown (what the trends would have been without any Covid restrictions)

There is no way to know what the unknown would have resulted in outside of your own supposition but when you start to compare the trends in states with a lot of restrictions to states with few if any restrictions, you would expect some kind of correlation there to support what you are suggesting - but there isn't one.
You can go with your experts, but so far, the data does not support that overdoses have increased as a result of isolation from the pandemic. If it did, there would be a positive correlation for states with the most restrictions.
Keep deflecting auditor. It was our Federal guidelines (ie CDC, etc) that set the tone. I never suggested correlations at the state level.

What’s your answer for the huge spike in deaths in 2020? Compared to the last four years?
 
Why do you assume that? Man, you love to twist yourself into stubborn pretzels to never admit you might be mistaken.

Assume for a second he is correct. That an increase in overdoses in 2020 was the result of "significant downstream unintended consequences" of isolation as 85 implied in his original post.

What would that look like across the country? Wouldn't you expect a correlation to prove that point where there were more restrictions compared to states where there were little to none? I don't need to twist anything.

All I did was ask the question if the data actually supported his position. That was before I even looked it up. After checking, I saw there was no correlation.
 
Keep deflecting auditor. It was our Federal guidelines (ie CDC, etc) that set the tone. I never suggested correlations at the state level.

You never suggested correlation at the state level? If what you are suggesting were true, there would be a correlation.

What’s your answer for the huge spike in deaths in 2020? Compared to the last four years?

Expansion of fentanyl in late 2019 - 2020
 
You never suggested correlation at the state level? If what you are suggesting were true, there would be a correlation.



Expansion of fentanyl in late 2019 - 2020
Anecdotal data. Doesn’t explain the 30% increase over the average of the last four years. There clearly has a spike in 2020 compared to the last four years which are pretty much the same. Nice try though. Did you miss The data I posted?
 
No, opioid deaths increased 29% in 2020 and are expected to increase by a greater margin this year. Look at the trend for the last five years:

2016-63k
2017-70k
2018-67k
2019-71k
2020-93k


I'll stick with my trusted network of experts, but thanks.
gonna be a tough look when opioid stats increase and isolation restrictions have been years old
 
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Anecdotal data. Doesn’t explain the 30% increase over the average of the last four years. There clearly has a spike in 2020 compared to the last four years which are pretty much the same. Nice try though. Did you miss The data I posted?
how are people getting access to fentynl in lockdown?
 
gonna be a tough look when opioid stats increase and isolation restrictions have been years old
Yup, time will tell. Hospitals expecting steep increases next 2-5 years as a result of pandemic.
 
Yup, time will tell. Hospitals expecting steep increases next 2-5 years as a result of pandemic.

No offense 85 but theres been an opioid epidemic ravaging America for 15 years. The pandemic maybe made it worse but it's been a big problem before the pandemic.

If you wanna be depressed watch the documentary Oxyana, about Oceana WV and that entire region that has been decimated by polls, screwing up an entire generation. Its been an epic failure by big pharma and some famous politicians, like Rudy, who had no balls to bring the hammer down on these greedy sons of bitches

I read an outstanding book a few summers back and I'll recommend it here once I recall the title haha.
 
how are the drug users getting it? doesnt sound like theyre isolating much. these people are already in a very small world.
Almost 100,000 deaths in one year is a very small world?
 
dotal data. Doesn’t explain the 30% increase over the average of the last four years. There clearly has a spike in 2020 compared to the last four years which are pretty much the same.

An actual study on prevalence of fentanyl changing across the country is anecdotal?

Look, it is pretty clear there are lots of reasons why there was an increase. But also pretty clear a fairly large spike started in the fall 2019.
 
An actual study on prevalence of fentanyl changing across the country is anecdotal?

Look, it is pretty clear there are lots of reasons why there was an increase. But also pretty clear a fairly large spike started in the fall 2019.
The study looks at seven cities/markets. The CDC implementation of guidelines was National; I pointed out overdose deaths have been static for the four years preceding 2020 and the pandemic…now boom, up almost 30%, and that is expected to spike even higher in 2021.
 
Talk to a mental health expert on how opioid addiction starts and progresses.
so maybe the current deaths could be contributed to users who took up 5 years ago. fentanyl deaths are a number of use play. eventually someone with heroin gets a cut batch and its KO. how many are first time users? i doubt the pandemic caused current users to use more. maybe the unemployment. id actually contribute that more than the isolation.
 
Almost 100,000 deaths in one year is a very small world?
im saying an opioid user eventually runs with a smaller and smaller circle. isolation because of the pandemic probably didnt change one thing about their life. clearly they were still going out to get drugs. did new users just start buying drugs alone? probably not. its 100% from peer influence. which means if its first time users then they were with peers. which means they werent in isolation.

all roads lead away
 
so maybe the current deaths could be contributed to users who took up 5 years ago. fentanyl deaths are a number of use play. eventually someone with heroin gets a cut batch and its KO. how many are first time users? i doubt the pandemic caused current users to use more. maybe the unemployment. id actually contribute that more than the isolation.
Any article you pull up indicates the increase is primarily from the pandemic. And by shutting things down, people lost their jobs.
 
Any article you pull up indicates the increase is primarily from the pandemic. And by shutting things down, people lost their jobs.
well thats a little different than isolation but i suppose adjacent. i actually believe unemployment most likely gave these types of people more money then they had at their jobs.

since when do you go by articles? you hate articles. all of a sudden articles and experts are your best friend
 
well thats a little different than isolation but i suppose adjacent. i actually believe unemployment most likely gave these types of people more money then they had at their jobs.

since when do you go by articles? you hate articles. all of a sudden articles and experts are your best friend
??? I hate articles? How do you come up with that. And how is that different? If the government imposes strict measures that causes businesses to close and lay people off, that’s the exact point I am making.
 
??? I hate articles? How do you come up with that. And how is that different? If the government imposes strict measures that causes businesses to close and lay people off, that’s the exact point I am making.
oh stop youve played your cards. stick with em
 
Right. It has been getting worse pretty much every year.

I just disagree that the increase this year was caused by isolation from Covid restrictions. Not really a supportable position.

You seem to only like data when it supports your position.

 
You seem to only like data when it supports your position.


Quite the opposite really. The data is the data, and ideally you would develop an expectation of what the data should show based on your hypothesis and let the data tell you if your hypothesis is accurate or not.

85 posted his opinion that the growth was mainly driven by isolation. All I did was ask if that is what the data showed but even in that link you just posted, there are some problems with 85's argument. I'm not arguing that it didn't get worse during the pandemic, clearly it did but there would be many reasons for that and I just didn't buy isolation as the cause.

If Covid isolation was driving the increase, I would expect the increase to start after lockdowns, and I would expect that states with more restrictions would show a more significant increase in overdose deaths compared to states with little to no restrictions. That's not what the data shows though.



"The recent increase in drug overdose mortality began in 2019 and continues into 2020, prior to the declaration of the COVID-19 National Emergency in the United States in March. "

"Synthetic opioids are the primary driver of the increases in overdose deaths. The 12-month count of synthetic opioid deaths increased 38.4% from the 12-months ending in June 2019 compared with the 12-months ending in May 2020 (Figure 1). Of the 38 jurisdictions with available synthetic opioid data,3 37 jurisdictions reported increases in synthetic opioid overdose deaths for this time period. Eighteen of these jurisdictions reported increases greater than 50%, 11 reported increases of 25% to 49%, 7 reported increases of 10% to 24%, 1 reported an increase <10% (See Figure 3). State and local health department reports indicate that the increase in synthetic opioid-involved overdoses is primarily linked to illicitly manufactured fentanyl.4-6 Historically, deaths involving illicitly manufactured fentanyl have been concentrated in the 28 states east of the Mississippi River, where the heroin market has primarily been dominated by white powder heroin.5,7 In contrast, the largest increases in synthetic opioid deaths from the 12-months ending in June 2019 to the 12-months ending in May 2020 occurred in 10 western states (98.0% increase).iii This is consistent with large increases in illicitly manufactured fentanyl availability in western states8 and increases in fentanyl positivity in clinical toxicology drugs tests in the West after the COVID-19 pandemic.9 Increases in synthetic opioid overdose deaths were also substantial in other regions: 12 southern states and the District of Columbia (35.4%), 6 midwestern states (32.1%), and 8 northeastern states and New York City (21.1%) "
 
he tried to move the goal posts to losing jobs as opposed to isoltion. even if you consider both hed have to prove it caused a bunch of new users, because the current users clearly arent isolating or living a much different life than they previously did. most found themselves with more money.

just a ton of holes and hes already moved on from blaming isolation.
 
he tried to move the goal posts to losing jobs as opposed to isoltion. even if you consider both hed have to prove it caused a bunch of new users, because the current users clearly arent isolating or living a much different life than they previously did. most found themselves with more money.

just a ton of holes and hes already moved on from blaming isolation.
Every article on mental illness, drug abuse, and overdose deaths from the pandemic points to loneliness and isolation. But keep up your data-less argument.
 
Unfortunately as we move to open borders more drugs come in and more Covid but I guess Dems think the additional eventual votes justify it.
 
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