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This will be the only thread on Covid here
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
I have some experience 20+ years ago where I published research on immunity (cd4 #'s in HIV populations) and at the time attended a research symposium on vaccine safety research at the CDC headquarters.
At the time there were 3 known side effects of vaccine 1) increased % of developing autoimmune dx 2) short term allergic reactions 3) increased rate of cancer in dogs/cats with greater #'s of vaccines given (a independent Gov study was funded to look at this in humans as well as %'s of the first 2, but upon completion it was blocked from publication and the results from being released.
From being in practice and seeing 100+ people per week, I can tell you the people that should be concerned about vax side effects are people with neurological conditions of the central nervous system or prev Encephalitis or Menengitis ( this coming from neurologist who commonly tell people with those conditions not to take it yet until more is known). I did have one 72 year old patient with prv history encephalitis get vax on a Thursday, Friday his son described his as being paralyzed in bed and Saturday he was dead.
But for most other side effects, I have had handful of Bells Palsy post vax (allergic reaction) and a larger group develop what I can describe as inflammation of the body's connective tissues ( similar to someone with Lymes or fibromyalgia) .
IMO there is enough scientific reason for personal choice, and yes natural immunity is superior than vax immunity, but natural immunity comes with the price paid for that immunity which is severe for some people.
At the time there were 3 known side effects of vaccine 1) increased % of developing autoimmune dx 2) short term allergic reactions 3) increased rate of cancer in dogs/cats with greater #'s of vaccines given (a independent Gov study was funded to look at this in humans as well as %'s of the first 2, but upon completion it was blocked from publication and the results from being released.
From being in practice and seeing 100+ people per week, I can tell you the people that should be concerned about vax side effects are people with neurological conditions of the central nervous system or prev Encephalitis or Menengitis ( this coming from neurologist who commonly tell people with those conditions not to take it yet until more is known). I did have one 72 year old patient with prv history encephalitis get vax on a Thursday, Friday his son described his as being paralyzed in bed and Saturday he was dead.
But for most other side effects, I have had handful of Bells Palsy post vax (allergic reaction) and a larger group develop what I can describe as inflammation of the body's connective tissues ( similar to someone with Lymes or fibromyalgia) .
IMO there is enough scientific reason for personal choice, and yes natural immunity is superior than vax immunity, but natural immunity comes with the price paid for that immunity which is severe for some people.
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It is hard, but it appears that’s because the risk of clotting is from something specific to the viral vector vaccines which is not in the mRNA vaccines. See the study below.
Science | AAAS
www.science.org
CDC says there were 3 out of 450 million, which would be about 450x less than the JJ incidences which were already very low.
COVID-19 Vaccination
COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.
www.cdc.gov
I would greatly appreciate if you would share your reactions or insights to the Dr Peter McCulloch podcasts linked above
I appreciate opposing views and debate, but I also think it’s fair to say that his viewpoint is in the minority among the medical community. Also true that some of the past stuff he said like asymptomatic people didn’t spread Covid proved to be entirely false… so why would you trust what he is saying compared to the majority of the medical community?
So when Fauci says something that eventually proves incorrect, that is called “science is evolving”. However when somebody else, that you don’t agree with does it you accuse him of spreading false information. I’m not saying he is credible or not, but you can’t have it both ways.
And just because he doesn’t agree with the majority of the medical community doesn’t make him wrong. Similar situation to what was posted on LOS from Dr. Robert Malone.
No, you should trust people who are trying to convey the information as we know it… but who also acknowledging that it can change as we learn more.
McCullough has been on the conspiratorial side of this and has said things that were false at the time he said them.
You’re right it doesn’t automatically make them wrong, but there is a bit of confirmation bias with people trusting him specifically.
It can change as we learn more is the key. So all of these people talking to us in absolutes are morons or dirty snake oil salesmen. They talk like they have all the answers now and things cannot change as time goes on. They talk like they solved 2+2 which will forever be 4. They ignore the fact that the fight against Covid is ongoing and the possibility we can learn more tomorrow that proves everything we know today to be false.
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It’s true. Nothing is absolute, not only can our understanding change but the virus can change as well and that has been part of the problem with public trust. People want the same things to be true for Delta or omnicron as the original virus that got here.
I personally tend to trust the people who try and present the information as we know it today but also acknowledge the uncertainty.
I don’t know McCullough but you’ve already labeled him as being on the conspirational side. How are you deeming what he said to be false at the time? False by who?
I think it’s healthy to view any information with a level of skepticism. I am probably most skeptical of those people who make statements in absolute terms. Politicians and MSM are the worst.
Interesting presentation from Pfizer. COVID pandemic is here to stay at least until 2024. Looks like I am right yet again. This pandemic will continue to evolve over the next several years.
www.cnbc.com
Pfizer executives say Covid could become endemic by 2024
Endemic means the coronavirus will not disappear but rather will become a constant presence like the flu.
More from Pfizer about the pandemic lasting until 2024
news.yahoo.com
www.hindustantimes.com
Pfizer says pandemic could extend to 2024, vaccine data for younger children delayed
Pfizer Inc on Friday forecast that the COVID-19 pandemic would not be behind us until 2024 and said a lower-dose version of its vaccine for 2- to 4-year-olds generated a weaker immune response than expected, potentially delaying authorization. Pfizer Chief Scientific Officer Mikael Dolsten said...
Covid-19: Amid Omicron surge, Pfizer says pandemic could extend to 2024
Pfizer chief scientific officer Mikael Dolsten said in a presentation to investors that the company expects some regions to continue to see pandemic levels of Covid-19 cases over the next year or two.
To see this new pandemic timeline from our experts is very very frustrating. As you all know I have put the safety of my high risk loved ones at priority and haven't left my house since March 2020. To see that the projected timeline for this pandemic has been extended a couple more years is exhausting. I will have to hunker down a couple more years.
www.hindustantimes.com
Covid-19: Amid Omicron surge, Pfizer says pandemic could extend to 2024
Pfizer chief scientific officer Mikael Dolsten said in a presentation to investors that the company expects some regions to continue to see pandemic levels of Covid-19 cases over the next year or two.
Hi @doctorcb12. Since you are a doctor I like your honest opinion. Do you see an end point for this pandemic right now? I still think its going to last several years as we have new variants spread through the unvaccinated world. Looking forward to hear you feedback!
Professional sports just had their worst week of COVID since the beginning
The NFL has rescheduled three games. The NHL has put three teams on ice through the holidays. COVID-19 is back in sports. And it’s as bad as ever.
nypost.com
Professional sports just had their worst week of COVID since the beginning
The NFL has rescheduled three games. The NHL has put three teams on ice through the holidays. COVID-19 is back in sports. And it’s as bad as ever.
The NFL’s hand was forced on Friday afternoon as a result of the sheer number of positive cases within the Browns, Rams and Washington organizations. The league moved this week’s Raiders-Browns matchup to Monday at 5 p.m. ET and slotted both Seahawks-Rams and Washington-Eagles for 7 p.m. ET on Tuesday.
That prompted outcry from the Raiders, with owner Mark Davis telling ESPN that moving the game back is a “competitive disadvantage to the Raiders.” Multiple players took to Twitter to accuse the NFL of bending its own rules.
“I’m sure the NFLPA president [center J.C. Tretter] playing for the Browns didn’t have any effect on these negotiations,” cornerback Casey Hayward tweeted.
In a memo to all 32 teams, commissioner Roger Goodell wrote, “The emergence of the Omicron variant is precisely the kind of change that warrants a flexible response.”
At the same time, the NHL was announcing that the Flames, Avalanche and Panthers would be shut down through the league’s holiday break, with some Canadian teams returning to reduced capacity.
Montreal played its Thursday night game in front of an empty Bell Centre. The Ontario government also curtailed capacity to 50 percent at Raptors, Maple Leafs and Senators games, as well as banning the sale of food or drink at venues. In British Columbia, the Canucks will reportedly be limited to 50 percent capacity as well.
Closer to home, New Jersey governor Phil Murphy brought up the possibility of limiting crowds at a press event on Friday.
“My fear is, we’re going to be getting back to capacity limits at some point,” Murphy told reporters.
It’s been such a disastrous week of COVID-19 in sports that multiple figures in the NFL are advocating for letting players who test positive play if asymptomatic and vaccinated.
Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones both brought up that approach on Friday as a way of avoiding the explosion of players unavailable this week.
“If you’re asymptomatic, you should be allowed to play,” Arians told reporters.
“I think we will get to a point, probably this week, that we’ll only test if symptomatic, that’s if you’ve been vaccinated,” Jones told 105.3 The Fan. “That’s a good thing. Test when you’re symptomatic and that’s it.”
It doesn’t seem like the NFLPA will be on board with such a plan. Though it agreed to let vaccinated asymptomatic players return sooner, the union still wants daily testing, which would not be conducive to the laissez-faire approach Arians and Jones are pushing for.
That such a system is now being advocated for, though, underscores the state of sports right now.
If there’s been a week comparable to March 2020, this is it.
Across the board, COVID-19 has ripped through the three American professional leagues currently playing, college basketball and European soccer. All have postponed games as a result of positive cases this week, and with the Omicron variant on the rise, it’s unclear when things will get better.
The Browns seem as good a place to start as any — they’ve had 20 positive tests including starting quarterback Baker Mayfield and backup Case Keenum. Mayfield tweeted his discontent with the NFL’s COVID protocols on Thursday, writing: “Actually caring about player safety would mean delaying the game with this continuing at the rate it is. … but to say you won’t test vaccinated players if they don’t have symptoms, then to pull this randomly. Doesn’t make any sense to me.”
Prior to their respective postponements, the Browns and Washington were both down to third-string quarterbacks. Whether that will be alleviated by postponing to Monday and Tuesday isn’t yet clear.
In the NBA, the Bulls are the only team to have games postponed thus far, but the Nets were on the border earlier this week. They played against the Raptors with just eight active players, the minimum for a game to be played.
The NBA, as well as other leagues, has returned to more intensive protocols. Stars Giannis Antetokounmpo, James Harden and Russell Westbrook are among the slew of players to test positive this week. Both local teams have been hit hard, with the Knicks down Immanuel Quickley, Kevin Knox, Quentin Grimes, R.J. Barrett and Obi Toppin. The Nets are missing Harden, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre’ Bembry, Bruce Brown, Jevon Carter, James Johnson and Paul Millsap.
The hardest-hit team in all of sports, though, is the Calgary Flames.
As of Friday morning, the Flames had 19 players and 32 total members of the organization in protocols — with just five players avoiding the virus. Four of their games have been postponed so far, with more looking likely. The Bruins also had their game against Montreal postponed following a raft of positives, including Brad Marchand and Patrice Bergeron, though they did play against the Islanders on Thursday night with just 17 skaters. They weren’t the only NHL team to play with an undermanned roster on Thursday — the Hurricanes beat Detroit with just 16 skaters, with star Sebastian Aho among the players missing.
At the college level, UCLA and Ohio State both had marquee games postponed due to positive tests. The Bruins’ Wednesday night game against Alabama State was canceled less than an hour before tip, with coach Mick Cronin among the positive tests. Saturday’s scheduled game against North Carolina was also called off.
Across the pond, the English Premier League postponed seven games this week and clubs are reportedly pushing for a temporary shutdown.
A March 2020-style shutdown seems unlikely in American sports right now. The NFL finally gave in to postponements, but it seems impossible that the league would shut down. Discussion around the NBA has centered on more intensive protocols. Ditto for the NHL, which reportedly hasn’t discussed shutting down the season (though pulling its players out of the Olympics feels more likely by the day).
What is clear, though, is that the current situation isn’t sustainable. The virus is decimating teams and the thresholds for postponement seem unclear at best. Following five players being entered into protocol on Thursday night, for example, the Colorado Avalanche were reportedly given the option of playing but voted to do so.
After losing to Nashville, 5-2, Colorado was among the teams shut down on Friday.
Though booster shots are widely available, leagues have been slow to get personnel the third shot. In the case of the Islanders, who suffered a COVID outbreak last month and had Mat Barzal go into protocol this week, coach Barry Trotz said Thursday that the entire team had been boosted. Later that afternoon, the organization sent out a statement walking back the claim.
“That statement is not true,” it said. “The organization has offered the booster shot to the entire team and will continue to educate and recommend that everyone consider receiving.”
In the NBA, the Bulls are the only team to have games postponed thus far, but the Nets were on the border earlier this week. They played against the Raptors with just eight active players, the minimum for a game to be played.
The NBA, as well as other leagues, has returned to more intensive protocols. Stars Giannis Antetokounmpo, James Harden and Russell Westbrook are among the slew of players to test positive this week. Both local teams have been hit hard, with the Knicks down Immanuel Quickley, Kevin Knox, Quentin Grimes, R.J. Barrett and Obi Toppin. The Nets are missing Harden, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre’ Bembry, Bruce Brown, Jevon Carter, James Johnson and Paul Millsap.
The hardest-hit team in all of sports, though, is the Calgary Flames.
As of Friday morning, the Flames had 19 players and 32 total members of the organization in protocols — with just five players avoiding the virus. Four of their games have been postponed so far, with more looking likely. The Bruins also had their game against Montreal postponed following a raft of positives, including Brad Marchand and Patrice Bergeron, though they did play against the Islanders on Thursday night with just 17 skaters. They weren’t the only NHL team to play with an undermanned roster on Thursday — the Hurricanes beat Detroit with just 16 skaters, with star Sebastian Aho among the players missing.
At the college level, UCLA and Ohio State both had marquee games postponed due to positive tests. The Bruins’ Wednesday night game against Alabama State was canceled less than an hour before tip, with coach Mick Cronin among the positive tests. Saturday’s scheduled game against North Carolina was also called off.
Across the pond, the English Premier League postponed seven games this week and clubs are reportedly pushing for a temporary shutdown.
A March 2020-style shutdown seems unlikely in American sports right now. The NFL finally gave in to postponements, but it seems impossible that the league would shut down. Discussion around the NBA has centered on more intensive protocols. Ditto for the NHL, which reportedly hasn’t discussed shutting down the season (though pulling its players out of the Olympics feels more likely by the day).
What is clear, though, is that the current situation isn’t sustainable. The virus is decimating teams and the thresholds for postponement seem unclear at best. Following five players being entered into protocol on Thursday night, for example, the Colorado Avalanche were reportedly given the option of playing but voted to do so.
After losing to Nashville, 5-2, Colorado was among the teams shut down on Friday.
Though booster shots are widely available, leagues have been slow to get personnel the third shot. In the case of the Islanders, who suffered a COVID outbreak last month and had Mat Barzal go into protocol this week, coach Barry Trotz said Thursday that the entire team had been boosted. Later that afternoon, the organization sent out a statement walking back the claim.
“That statement is not true,” it said. “The organization has offered the booster shot to the entire team and will continue to educate and recommend that everyone consider receiving.”
I intend to have more to say later, but as for now: 1--The fact that vaccines don't prevent the virus is pretty obvious. This week has proven that. So it doesn't matter who is or isn't vaccinated in terms of assessing blame. Period.
2--I would hesitate to believe Pfizer's estimation of the situation, considering its financial stake in keeping this going as long as possible, and administering as many shots and boosters as possible. It's like--old-school reference alert--asking Willie Sutton for tips on safeguarding your bank. That's just my natural skepticism. It's kinda like natural immunity, which used to be a thing until March 2020.
3--Similar old-school reference. You can't keep saying, well, get this booster, and that booster. It becomes like Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam. I dare you to cross this line, that line, this line, that line, this line. Where does it end, and how many variants does it perhaps create? You're eventually driving down a highway with no off-ramp. We are going to see more and more pushback. Look at the NFL right now.
4--I can't stress this enough. STOP TESTING ASYMPTOMATIC ATHLETES. It is the only way out of this mess. We'll be spinning our wheels for the rest of our natural lives if we don't. This cursed thing isn't going away. It seems to be here to stay. Put it this way--if you're playing a 1-2-2 zone, and it is getting shredded, wouldn't you go man at some point? To keep re-doing the same policies that haven't worked is the real-world equivalent, but that is what TPTB are doing. It has to change.
2--I would hesitate to believe Pfizer's estimation of the situation, considering its financial stake in keeping this going as long as possible, and administering as many shots and boosters as possible. It's like--old-school reference alert--asking Willie Sutton for tips on safeguarding your bank. That's just my natural skepticism. It's kinda like natural immunity, which used to be a thing until March 2020.
3--Similar old-school reference. You can't keep saying, well, get this booster, and that booster. It becomes like Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam. I dare you to cross this line, that line, this line, that line, this line. Where does it end, and how many variants does it perhaps create? You're eventually driving down a highway with no off-ramp. We are going to see more and more pushback. Look at the NFL right now.
4--I can't stress this enough. STOP TESTING ASYMPTOMATIC ATHLETES. It is the only way out of this mess. We'll be spinning our wheels for the rest of our natural lives if we don't. This cursed thing isn't going away. It seems to be here to stay. Put it this way--if you're playing a 1-2-2 zone, and it is getting shredded, wouldn't you go man at some point? To keep re-doing the same policies that haven't worked is the real-world equivalent, but that is what TPTB are doing. It has to change.
right but is this saying its like .5 more person per milion? almost impossible to find anything about pfizerIt is hard, but it appears that’s because the risk of clotting is from something specific to the viral vector vaccines which is not in the mRNA vaccines. See the study below.
Science | AAAS
CDC says there were 3 out of 450 million, which would be about 450x less than the JJ incidences which were already very low.
COVID-19 Vaccination
COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.
i cant find it now , but back when jj was getting slammed there was an israeli study that had blood clot events 6 per mil for mrna and 5 per mil for jj.
theres a ton of effort to slam JJ. now theyre saying its 100x better to get mrna booster than jj booster. i dont believe it.
no way, transmission is almost entirely long exposures in intiment settings. sire its possible but anyone could have given rutgers the virus.
A
anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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so what about when fauci first said masks do nothing? insisted. he admittwd it was a lie. not that ge was wrong, that he purposely lied. lied for what he deemed a better cause. well what else does he thing is a better cause?
im not a fan of fauci either. poor puppies!
Thank you for the feedback. Really appreciate it. The thing is we have to trust people that know a lot more than us as well such as doctors and scientists.
One key point from my doctor MD friend is omicron already has 50 different variations and pfizer notes that as well to why the pandemic timeline would be expanded. Omicron is totally different than all of the other covid variants so far.
Another thing people seem to be ignoring is how lucky we are that Omicron appears to be less severe. It could easily have been a more severe strain. Just imagine if that’s what was spreading like crazy.
Scientists have said its not the case yet that omicron is more severe or not. We don't know that yet. Need more time. NJ hospitalizations are going up. Its possible it is omicron.
I was doing a play on words. I should have said herd immunity. My apologies.
This is pretty telling, from the story Dan posted:
“If you’re asymptomatic, you should be allowed to play,” (Bruce) Arians told reporters.
The tide is turning, in terms of opinion. Will the leagues change their MO? We'll see.
“If you’re asymptomatic, you should be allowed to play,” (Bruce) Arians told reporters.
The tide is turning, in terms of opinion. Will the leagues change their MO? We'll see.
Not sure if I would take a quote from an NFL coach as words of wisdom during a pandemic. I would stick to the doctors and scientists.
Also the players association is definitely not going to be fine with that.
Skepticism is good, but he pushes conspiracies. Says for example that the government intentionally withheld Covid treatment in order to vaccinate the population.
Literally the definition of conspiracy.
in things he was wrong about, For example there were many scientific studies showing that asymptomatic transmission was prevalent, and he went out saying that there wasn’t any.
Let’s be honest, the government messaging has been exclusively about vaccinations and masks. Very little if any messaging about early intervention if you are symptomatic, derisking your chances by addressing comorbitities or the approved treatments. Call it what you want but everything the government messaging has been about is vaccinating.
I think it’s because the studies would show things that are adverse events outside of what was expected, but clotting was not one of those things for mRNA.
If you find that study, let me know. I couldn’t find anything other than the CDC saying that there were 3 cases in 450 million shots.
I think it’s important to put the mask comment in context that we didn’t understand the airborne nature at the time and thought it was more droplet transmission.
That said, I’m not here to say you need to trust Fauci. I’m just saying, place your trust on people who are doing their best to be honest with you based on what they know in that moment. You can choose who that is for you.
Sure. Your criticism is valid, but to say the government was withholding information on hydroxychloroqine or Ivermectin is bullshit.
They encouraged vaccination because the drugs early on didn’t have real evidence they actually helped. So you don’t encourage taking drugs that may not help as an option instead of vaccination when you are certain the vaccine helps.
it was referring to clots. ever since vaers started to count only deaths as "severe reaction" and the pharma companys have their data under lock and key im not sure what to believe.
and yea, its hard to find anything now on the internet. google wont show articles ive read in the past. there was one about the adverse clotting for mrna vaccines. and then obv a zillion other for jj.
you cant take any of this as fact of course, so my only point is that i think theres an effort to prop up certain vaccines over others
nah. it was pretty obvious that masks could do anything but help. it was an effort to keep inventory available for healthcare workers.
and after we discovered its airborne is when he started pushing masks. opposite of what youd think.
With all due respect, sir, the doctors and scientists have been wrong time after time after time, because politics, IMO, has influenced 'the science.' I'm not going to debate you further because we are on opposite sides of this, clearly. I've seen your posts.
I'm 57. When the Grim Reaper comes to get me, and that could be tomorrow, I don't know, I would like to be LIVING. Not half-dead inside already, cowering in my basement.
They are still not forthcoming with all of the information (therapies, prevention, etc.). They are forcing the vaccination message. There is a clear intent to the messaging.
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