Meltdown Mode - Begin
- Thread starter HallGuy23
- Start date
Ok lol..I brought it up myself to prove not everything is always accurate specially in recruiting..you said specifics not specific and right..sometimes it’s not right
Oh also a long time ago..when Sha was still god here I posted a few times I had a kid myself who was being recruited by Sha while at St Peter’s
This was the kids only d-1 offer for awhile AND during the time they St Peters was blowing up and I referenced the kid wanted literally nothing to do with him despite what family and coaches said..I brought that up at the time as I was still concerned about him recruiting here.
That kid has actually had a nice d-1 career and so maybe if you want to be glass half full at least it seems Sha has an eye for developmental talent
What I said to be clear is that the administration would not hire a coach who didn't have NCAA tournament experience.
Once Sha accomplished that feat his hire was a no brainer.
So their ONLY concern prior to that was that he didn’t win his league and go to the NCAAT?
Not just him. Any coach.
The administration felt they wanted a head coach with experience in the tournament.
The administration felt they wanted a head coach with experience in the tournament.
Sha was the hottest commodity in the business. I can only imagine this board if he ended up at St John's or somewhere else.
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Im all for sending a message. Lets see if malachis speed can get in lanes. Coleman and sanders are the future. Let em play and learn on the job
@williaza01 I know you’ve mentioned “perception of the program” from outsiders before. Could you elaborate on that? Generally curious what that is.
I’ve mentioned it in the past. I am not an insider..I know an assistant at an ACC school (very well) he knows lots of kids in our area, I know a former MAAC school assistant, and we have a family friend who is a regional nba scout for about 25 years most recently with the lakers.
All have told me for years how extremely difficult our job/school is for years and years. How most in the industry wouldn’t even really give us the time of day for interviews etc.
The two assistants told me before we hired Sha that they thought it wouldn’t work…expressing what is said inside the industry as not a great deal of optimism in him as a coach OR recruiter. Since than I’ve talked to one more than the other and they said (full disclosure only a few) players that have been mutually recruited don’t have many positive things to say.
Take it for what it’s worth. They are opponents..one gave me info that turned out to be inaccurate (as @shu09 has pointed out)
However all of this, in addition to what we’ve witnessed over 1+ years, plus what a kid I personally had said during his recruitment by Sha (at St. Peter’s) has me worried, which I’ve said for awhile.
I’ve been told this isn’t detail enough so I am sorry if this isn’t good enough but I feel like specifics are in bad taste and not really interested in fully going there
There’s a reason why we’re relevant only once every 20-25 years or so and for a short amount of time.. I repeatedly said here that the Willard years was the high point this program can get and 99% of you argued with me.
Being a roughly top 25 or so program
Winning games against top 25 teams
Being in the NCAA tournament
Winning games in the Big East Tournament
That’s the best Seton Hall can do outside of miracle years. And of those in 75 years we’ve had what, 3? 2020 probably being one of them
Thanks for going into detail, I now recall you mentioning a lot of this before.
it sounds like the job difficulty/lack of interest goes back before NIL, I wonder if that is mostly due to the lack of practice facility or if thats a possible indictment on the administration. Sounds multi faceted
This is the kind of post I wanted to see, thanks. It certainly informs my views.
Can’t speak on perception of admin
But not just practice facility (that’s big) but ALL facilities
Also it’s been told me like “juice” in the program..most never want to hear this but the whole “nyc market” is a fallacy..at best we are the 12-13-14 team in this market..no “juice” that doesn’t come across well either
I guess I should add this to be fair and maybe help…all 3 likes/really liked KW and the job he was doing here…which is why I always leaned pro KW
So that should make like 70% of the board happy since they hate him and will be able to say all 3 are know nothing morons
So that should make like 70% of the board happy since they hate him and will be able to say all 3 are know nothing morons
Interesting--though details are the soul of narrative so I still would like to hear more (maybe on Trove?) about the "specifics."
Also no surprise that SHU is a tough sell for coaches. But that raises another question: if we didn't hire Sha who would have been next in line?
Great point and why I don’t “blame” anyone..he couldn’t NOT be hired at that time
He was the hottest commodity in the business. And we're fortunate that we didn't have any competition for him at the time since most of that season's job openings had already been filled (probably because it was common knowledge Sha was coming here).
But there is a world somewhere between the Elite Eight run and the guy who was 58-56 heading into that year's MAAC tournament.
A loss to Fairfield, Quinnipiac or Monmouth in that tournament changes the equation drastically. SPU led Monmouth by two with under a minute to play in that MAAC final. They lose that game and he's some guy that nobody outside the metro NY area knows.
This is interesting. Certainly not positive info regarding Sha, but I’m also not surprised in some ways.
I have to think transitioning from a heralded recruit and college player to becoming a head coach comes with some caveats. I expect he’s made some enemies in the time he’s been around. He doesn’t bite his tongue when he should sometimes.
The competitive nature he has is two sided.
And I wonder if kids these days want to be sucked up to, catered to, worshipped. For better or worse, Sha doesn’t do that. And that’s gonna turn some kids off recruiting-wise.
Some, however, will want the tough love.
Among many other things, I think a lot of Sha’s coaching is going to hinge on being able to
1). hire a seasoned coach that can run plays and orchestrate defense and
2). Listen to him.
Why? Because Sha tells them they are going to have to work hard. Give me a break.
Many of the best coaches are difficult to play for. And only certain types can do so. Quinerly has been a good college player, but obviously that wasn’t a fit with Jay Wright. Whether JQ couldn’t deal with Wright’s style or demands, Jay politely told him to look elsewhere or whatever, it didn’t work. But when you show you can win and develop kids it usually doesn’t matter because you will find enough that want to play.
You can go down the list of all time or current great college coaches, from Knight, to Izzo, Pitino, Sampson etc they were or are all notoriously hard to play for and not for everyone. But they eventually win and kids develop under them in a real way, so it works out.
Water under the bridge and I don’t think he was ever coming here. St Johns got lucky that it was the right time in the guys career for him to want to be there, otherwise they weren’t getting him either.
Do know the Line would be long to get $2.4 mill for Coaching in the NYC media market
Who? What long line? This is faulty logic imo…not attacking you because it’s prevalent but IMO it’s just not sound
I don't doubt what you are saying, but it will not be hard to find critics of 90% of the coaches. I guarantee you similar things said about all the Hurleys. You need to find the right players.
Samuel left us and many thought it was not just the money, yet he played a huge role in Bediako coming in.
JQ tweeted out during Nova season that there was a reason Nova was his second choice. This about a Jay Wright program. He then goes to play well for Alabama.
Actually I think most coaches like Danny…idk about Bobby…but you miss the point..these are assistants..in that world you are loyal to you and want to attach yourself to the correct person
Their opinion is different than a more established head coach
Let coaches take the Rhode Island, VCU, St Joe's, Temple or Penn State jobs then. We don't pay 300k or 1.3M a year. Add facilities to the list of the fan base and refs that people blame. Now in this era I can see a coach in an interview asking about NIL resources and what collective do you have in place. And then being turned off or having reservations about the job here.
You made my point..would most of this board want/think we should compete with those schools for a coach?
It’s not a I’m a vacuum..anyone we want would presumably have other options..so it’s not 2.4m in a vacuum..also that will get you mostly unproven assistant types..that’s risky..would we ever be able to do what Georgetown just did? Or Notre dame? Or UConn? Get proven winners or big time pedigree guys? Idk but I think it’s hard for us
i didn’t mix his words but that’s fine…you got the Sha stuff right from the beginning I forgot
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We are 12-14 in NYC market ? Was that before Hurley's epic run last year? Willard was making 3M here. We were forced to hire Gonzales things have changed since then and the conference reinvented itself and is much stronger now. If you are saying we are way down in NYC market NIL opportunities maybe that is accurate but look what RU just did. If the problem is Sha then that is the problem not all this other stuff you keep insinuating.
The new big east provided a landscape that turned out favorable for SHU. at the time willard was still considered a new coach. prior to SHU he had what is probably considered a "better" body of work by the fans on this board than Sha's overall body of work. After Gonzos recruits left we were terrible, worse than we are now. Then he hired Tiny and got the big recruit and the program took off. Two big things were the new big east and a big recruiting class.
Now Sha has taken over during a landscape change that makes it almost impossible for SHU: NIL/Transfer rules. We have been atrocious in the donor/money dept and you its essentially a direct result on your success as a program. Good players want money and we dont have it. If a player develops into a good player they will bolt for program with money (already happened to samuel). Any coach with real success wouldnt want to come here because of it. Sure we can pay decent salary, but we dont have any resources and that issue is 10x worse now.
We are going to have to accept that were probably going to have bad players more times than we have good players, and our current coach has made the Elite 8 with bad players.
Now Sha has taken over during a landscape change that makes it almost impossible for SHU: NIL/Transfer rules. We have been atrocious in the donor/money dept and you its essentially a direct result on your success as a program. Good players want money and we dont have it. If a player develops into a good player they will bolt for program with money (already happened to samuel). Any coach with real success wouldnt want to come here because of it. Sure we can pay decent salary, but we dont have any resources and that issue is 10x worse now.
We are going to have to accept that were probably going to have bad players more times than we have good players, and our current coach has made the Elite 8 with bad players.
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We could have asked but I don't think there's a chance he would have come here. I think he would have been content to stay at Iona until the spot he really wanted opened.
He already had a gig being in SJU's shadow and didn't have the additional pressure coming here would have added. I also don't think he would have come here and upstaged his protege.
I'm not sure we would have gone to that number depending on who we actually pursued. Sha got there because of the tournament run.
FWIW, Pitino is supposedly making about a million per year more than that. I'm sure that's far more than we were willing to pay.
By the way JQ is killing it at Memphis . Another player we lost because they outbid us with NIL money . They more than double the money we offered .
That's simply not true at all, regardless of what your friends in "high level athletics" say.
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