I hope the ACC guy is part of Boeheim. As the TT circus Sha got into was a good time.
Meltdown Mode - Begin
- Thread starter HallGuy23
- Start date
This isnt Sha's fault
What were the issues from last years team?
Couldn't shoot free throws
Offense looked stagnant
This year the ball is moving more and other then this last game they have been hitting their free-throws.
This issue falls on the players. Dawes is completely out of rhythm and not only taking bad shots but taking inopportune shots as well as making boneheaded plays. Sha needs to figure out what to do with him more then anybody.
Kadary has shown glimpses of what he could be but that motor and drive has to be for the full game.
Davis is playing well but hes going up against power forwards and he's a small forward. If NIL wasn't an issue he would be starting at SF.
Wusu needs to find himself, he looks lost. Year after year we have seen transfers come in from other schools and rarely do they make an impact in their first year. On the contrary Bediako looks much better then anybody anticipated. Its simple math that the odds were leaning toward one of them not being great right away.
At the end of the day this team looks better then last years team. Sha needs some help with funding better players..
Everything that Sha has done is exactly what needs to be done to be successful but you have to play the hand you are dealt. It looks like he tried to play Coleman more minutes last game and without the runouts or open shots he looked like the freshman that he is. Sanders the same thing, but without the defensive athleticism.
What were the issues from last years team?
Couldn't shoot free throws
Offense looked stagnant
This year the ball is moving more and other then this last game they have been hitting their free-throws.
This issue falls on the players. Dawes is completely out of rhythm and not only taking bad shots but taking inopportune shots as well as making boneheaded plays. Sha needs to figure out what to do with him more then anybody.
Kadary has shown glimpses of what he could be but that motor and drive has to be for the full game.
Davis is playing well but hes going up against power forwards and he's a small forward. If NIL wasn't an issue he would be starting at SF.
Wusu needs to find himself, he looks lost. Year after year we have seen transfers come in from other schools and rarely do they make an impact in their first year. On the contrary Bediako looks much better then anybody anticipated. Its simple math that the odds were leaning toward one of them not being great right away.
At the end of the day this team looks better then last years team. Sha needs some help with funding better players..
Everything that Sha has done is exactly what needs to be done to be successful but you have to play the hand you are dealt. It looks like he tried to play Coleman more minutes last game and without the runouts or open shots he looked like the freshman that he is. Sanders the same thing, but without the defensive athleticism.
I think you are right about this. All I have been saying is that the school is not low balling coaches anymore like 400k for Gonzalez or doing a George Zofffinger on the BOR of RU saying why offer Fred Hill Jr. the $$ he got saying he would have taken the job for less.
Last year's team wasn't great, but it was much better on defense and a little better offensively. I honestly don't know how someone could objectively look at the play on the court and the results to date and say this year's edition looks better. This has all the makings of a 9th or 10th place Big East team.
SH needs to take a hard look at Sha’s staff of assistants and whether they bring what is required in the way of player development ,recruiting and game preparation.
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I wasn't trying to pile on, but I think you did twist words a little bit. Dan clarified that it wasn't Holloway that SHU wasn't going to touch, it was a coach without NCAAT experience. By all accounts, it was a done deal before the "run," so that part was a bit disingenuous too.
I’ll take the blame than..however I think there is a little revisionism going on with Dan too
But that’s fine I’ll take the hit on that
However, now I’ll say if we didn’t have reservations than that’s an even bigger red flag than I originally thought
Could this be any more over the top victim mentality? Playing the hand he’s dealt? Sha is one of the dealers.
I’m not ready to fry him just yet, but to pretend that Sha is just a victim of circumstances is ludicrous.
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And the SHU fans who sold their tickets to RU fans (or put them for sale on various exchanges). I sit mid court in Section 8 and there were RU fans everywhere. Very disappointing.
In no universe will Sanders and Davis get to take 15 3s a game.
Of course we always want to strive for those miracle years but your four points above is accurate for where the focus for our program should be. KW was able to get there and then sustain it for 6-7 years.
I loathe to be critical, so I'll try to temper my thoughts. I thought Sha was not seasoned enough, although that subsided a bit with the Elite 8 run.
Overall, I have always felt Seton Hall doesn't think big. Never has. I understand all the issues as noted in this thread, and those issues surely don't make it easy to attract big time talent or coaches. And I've always felt the campus is not a destination (although I wouldn't call St. John's much better), so attracting a student athlete or a coach can't be easy.
But it's hard to accept that we couldn't have gotten a more established, "big name" coach (I wanted Hurley, but maybe a guy like Smart or even JT III). A lot of people will react "we'd never get <insert coach's name here>", but it's that line of thinking that gets us in trouble.
Open the purse strings or figure it out - it can be done (see Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool). I'm rooting hard for Sha, but if for some reason it doesn't work out, I want SHU to think bigger than recent history has shown us.
Overall, I have always felt Seton Hall doesn't think big. Never has. I understand all the issues as noted in this thread, and those issues surely don't make it easy to attract big time talent or coaches. And I've always felt the campus is not a destination (although I wouldn't call St. John's much better), so attracting a student athlete or a coach can't be easy.
But it's hard to accept that we couldn't have gotten a more established, "big name" coach (I wanted Hurley, but maybe a guy like Smart or even JT III). A lot of people will react "we'd never get <insert coach's name here>", but it's that line of thinking that gets us in trouble.
Open the purse strings or figure it out - it can be done (see Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool). I'm rooting hard for Sha, but if for some reason it doesn't work out, I want SHU to think bigger than recent history has shown us.
Its easy to “think Big “ when you are not handicapped by your lack of financial resources that would allow you to put in place the structure to be able to compete with the programs in the Power 5 conferences and the elite programs in the Big East . Seton Hall is trying as we see by the commitment to building a multi million $ new practice facility and paying Sha the salary he‘s receiving. Yet trying to be competitive in today’s “pay to play “ world ,may just be unattainable for us. To even have a legitimate shot at being competitive it’s going to take success on the court and create some positive buzz” about the program and its head coach.
We missed the toughness of KC and Femi. Not gifted shooters by any stretch, but dogs on defense.
Ugh, Zoffinger. That is a name I didn't want to remember. RU still employs his daughter.
Gtown has 3 top 75 recruits. it was money, not buzz or success.
if anything, the school should be doubling down on its investment in the coaching staff; what I mean is, now tahat they have/will raise 40 or more million for the practice facility, now that they are committing resources, time, effort toward NIL...unless you have the rest of the resources, all this investment is for naught...which is no way to treat OPM.
So, if part of the answer is to bolster this staff with an experienced bench and recruiting coach, whomever that may be...and it may cost more than they would like to spend (ie 300K 400K), they owe it to the donors/collective contributors to make this investment...so that those folks (ie US!) investments can pay off.
I watched as we squandered the Final Four run by not investing heavily while the opportunity to build on that momentum was there...almost as if the school was content with the extra attention....added applications and enrollment, and just wanted to bank it all without reinvesting any of it. We paid a hard price for that.
Waste people's money this time around and...there may be no coming back.
I don't doubt there are some resource restraints, but is the school operating at a loss? That's a legit question - I don't know the answer, but I'll assume things are at least breakeven.
Assume that is the case, the endowment is what - $300M? The highest paid college coaches are between $5-8M per year, so a 5-year contract is $40M. I think KW's last contract was worth close to $30M, so that has to be in the budget. Increase that by $10 - 15M, couldn't we land someone with name status?
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I just don't feel like SHU was ever really serious about it, and just thinks to small, too defeatist. I hate to rip on poor George Blaney, but that was a HUGE dud. The aftermath of all of that was one letdown after another, and even KW was sort of blah until he started doing well.
Just remember
Like allowing Dawes to ------(insert your favorite gripe) or take unlimited 3s
Einstein's Parable of Quantum Insanity
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”Like allowing Dawes to ------(insert your favorite gripe) or take unlimited 3s
So what I don’t understand is if we had sustainability under Kevin Willard for 6-7 years, how come we couldn’t convert that buzz into more sustainable recruiting from the High School ranks.
In his last 3 seasons recruiting HS players Willard landed…
Honestly I don’t care what it was, we weren’t able to parlay success into future sustainable success. And now the landscape has changed with NIL and the transfer portal, which screams that you need direct $$$ to your student athlete (hasn’t that become a bogus term these days) to compete. More than was ever needed than before. And we are hoping that Sha can do it with under the radar / developmental recruits and then believe that future recruits will buy into the program culture and just ignore all the money being offered at other programs?
I’m sorry. We are facing a steep hill to climb here. And it’s unfortunate Sha got his opportunity at a time where Seton Hall has to overcome even more challenges than it faced previously.
In his last 3 seasons recruiting HS players Willard landed…
- Tyrese Samuel
- Dimingus Stevens
- Jahari long
- Ryan Coneay
- Brandon Weston
- Tyler Powell
- Was it the lack of a practice facility?
- Was it the location of the campus?
- Was it lack of NIL money or under the table money?
- Was it not having an on campus arena?
- Was it the coaches ability to recruit?
Honestly I don’t care what it was, we weren’t able to parlay success into future sustainable success. And now the landscape has changed with NIL and the transfer portal, which screams that you need direct $$$ to your student athlete (hasn’t that become a bogus term these days) to compete. More than was ever needed than before. And we are hoping that Sha can do it with under the radar / developmental recruits and then believe that future recruits will buy into the program culture and just ignore all the money being offered at other programs?
I’m sorry. We are facing a steep hill to climb here. And it’s unfortunate Sha got his opportunity at a time where Seton Hall has to overcome even more challenges than it faced previously.
Intel's former CEO Andy Grove wrote a seminal book called "Only The Paranoid Survive", arguing (essentially) that your nearest competitor isn't the #2 or #3 company - it's the small startup of 2 people in their garage.
My takeaway from it is that you are always hustling, always working. Unless the label says "University of Kentucky", it's an uphill climb. To be fair, we've even seen Kentucky in better days, both in the past and recent history...so it's very applicable.
My point is that I think sustainability is a myth, and even more so with SHU - it's just not going to happen. That's why we need a big name, and not a big name that's looking to coast...you need someone that's still hungry to succeed (which is why I think Pitino was a great fit for SJU).
That being said, as a former youth soccer coach, the level of talent out there BELOW blue chip is outstanding. You can win without "top recruits", you just have to find them and figure out how to make them fit.
Easier said than done - that's why you need a coach that is seasoned and gets how to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
I agree with most of what you just said.
Now when you have paid top tier money for that coach who can make the whole greater than the sum of their parts, what happens the following year when NIL / transfer portal allows everyone to poach those pieces away from your program because you can’t afford to retain them?
It’s just a frustrating proposition at the moment.
There is no revisionist history with me. Please do not criticize when you do not have more than your gut feeling.
I was told that from about as high up as possible once the word was confirmed that Willard was gone. And that happened far before the season ended.
And GTown has a head coach who is a recognizable name and a very good recruiter and his hiring was widely accepted by their fan base.
I've written that I am not big fan of this staff; yet I think Shaheen was the heir apparent to Willard all along. And it is known we are not a place-of-interest to prospective head coaches. When we hired Willard in 2009, we couldn't get Cooley at Fairfield to return our calls, and he was much hotter name than Willard. He chose to remain in MAAC than jump to us.
My biggest disappointment in Holloway is that he didn't bring in better players in year one---or line them up for year 2--- when he was the darling of the coaching profession. Most here responded by saying "trust in Shaheen; he knows what he's doing.'
My biggest disappointment in Holloway is that he didn't bring in better players in year one---or line them up for year 2--- when he was the darling of the coaching profession. Most here responded by saying "trust in Shaheen; he knows what he's doing.'
and how did they get that coach? because of money. money they pay him and money he has to use when hes the coach there to get players. if gtown aint paying, those guys couldnt care less about cooley
I think you are very accurate here. Wasn't Fran McCaffrey another coach who would not return our phone calls?
I don't know if he would or wouldn't return our calls but he was on the radar for much better jobs than ours.
If it's me, I take the Iowa job over our job 11 times out of 10 .
Sorry but by year 2 $$$ rules and he had precious few to spread around.
Why was our coaching spot undesirable? Same reason that exists today. Insufficient resources and no credible reason to think that’s going to change.
I think we saw last night that there are guys starting that need to be benched and guys on the bench who need far more playing time.
Where I fault Sha is I he decides who starts and who sits on the bench and he is making wrong choices from what I see.
Where I fault Sha is I he decides who starts and who sits on the bench and he is making wrong choices from what I see.
Totally disagree on this one. Dawes to the bench. Coleman starts
With exception of Brown not playing in 2md half until end, the minutes distribution did change and was much better.
I don't think Sha will change starting lineup for the next two games. I do think we will see quicker substitutions with better minute distribution.
Have to agree. My gut is a shorter leash as we saw early with Dawes and then Wusu in the second half when he had that brutal offensive stretch.
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