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Moving to Phase II

Barring something unforeseen, it's looking more and more like Trump will prevail now that he's got the perfect new enemy lined up....and it's not Biden. Pretty obvious China is going to be the target, especially if more and more comes out that they weren't transparent or covered up what happened. The electorate will be pissed that their mistakes or worse have killed tens of thousands, cratered our economies and altered our lifestyles for years to come.

Had he not downplayed this from the beginning, I might believe that.
He didn't. He even praised China in their transparency early on.

Trump would have a better chance in November if he never said a word on this outbreak other than "listen to the experts who will now talk"

He made it worse and now he is basically promoting civil war in states which just so happen to have democratic governors.
 
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Had he not downplayed this from the beginning, I might believe that.
He didn't. He even praised China in their transparency early on.

Trump would have a better chance in November if he never said a word on this outbreak other than "listen to the experts who will now talk"

He made it worse and now he is basically promoting civil war in states which just so happen to have democratic governors.
The press conferences are cringe worthy but he’s going to go in the attack with China now. Non-stop. We are seeing the public in many places that want to go back to work and living their lives and he’s playing to that.
 
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The press conferences are cringe worthy but he’s going to go in the attack with China now. Non-stop. We are seeing the public in many places that want to go back to work and living their lives and he’s playing to that.

Yeah, I understand what he is doing... maybe I’m giving the electorate too much credit in thinking they will see how ridiculous that is.
 
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Well 2016 wasn’t that long ago....

if people want to buy snake oil, that’s fine.
4 years later, you’d have to think some of them would have realized they were sold garbage...

And Hillary is not on the ballot this time.
 
if people want to buy snake oil, that’s fine.
4 years later, you’d have to think some of them would have realized they were sold garbage...

And Hillary is not on the ballot this time.
I can't remember who is on the ballot this time - lol.
 
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Had he not downplayed this from the beginning, I might believe that.
He didn't. He even praised China in their transparency early on.

Trump would have a better chance in November if he never said a word on this outbreak other than "listen to the experts who will now talk"

He made it worse and now he is basically promoting civil war in states which just so happen to have democratic governors.
That is always his game plan divide and concur.
 
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No. What the hell does he accomplish by tweeting LIBERATE for states with democratic governors only.

why the hell is he tweeting about the 2nd amendment at a time like this.

He is promoting civil unrest that is going to get people killed. That is not hyperbole.
They all are playing politics. Trump is being bad, okay. Pelosi is showing off her freezer with ice cream while small businesses are desperate for money. Both will cause civil unrest. Maybe a little leniency at this time would help some businesses but Murphy is not having any of that. Sales tax is due Monday no exceptions. Wait til they re open the economy and workers refuse to go back because they make more on unemployment, it will lead to more civil unrest. The shit show is just starting. Call out both sides.
 
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They all are playing politics. Trump is being bad, okay. Pelosi is showing off her freezer with ice cream while small businesses are desperate for money. Both will cause civil unrest. Maybe a little leniency at this time would help some businesses but Murphy is not having any of that. Sales tax is due Monday no exceptions. Wait til they re open the economy and workers refuse to go back because they make more on unemployment, it will lead to more civil unrest. The shit show is just starting. Call out both sides.
Exactly. Both sides have behave like cheap shot artists. Example: Obama and Romney took cheap shots in 2012. Both sides are not innocent in creating divisiveness. Trump knows media and he’s taken it to an art form. He divides and picks targets that people hate more than him....Congress, MSM, criminals, specific governors and now China. If you notice, he never criticizes the electorate. He “loves” everyone....educated, uneducated, black, white, Hispanic, gay, people of each state...etc. His playbook is pretty simple. He’s just better at selling snake oil than the rest of them.
 
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They all are playing politics. Trump is being bad, okay. Pelosi is showing off her freezer with ice cream while small businesses are desperate for money. Both will cause civil unrest. Maybe a little leniency at this time would help some businesses but Murphy is not having any of that. Sales tax is due Monday no exceptions. Wait til they re open the economy and workers refuse to go back because they make more on unemployment, it will lead to more civil unrest. The shit show is just starting. Call out both sides.

“Look at my fancy ice cream”


“LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

yeah, those are close....

Pelosi was tone deaf and I I have criticized her that she is playing politics with the issue.

People are going to die because of Trumps rhetoric here. You don’t need to “both sides” that.
There are zero examples of any politician, democrat or republican doing something so stupid during a crisis.
 
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“Look at my fancy ice cream”


“LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

yeah, those are close....

Pelosi was tone deaf and I I have criticized her that she is playing politics with the issue.

People are going to die because of Trumps rhetoric here. You don’t need to “both sides” that.
There are zero examples of any politician, democrat or republican doing something so stupid during a crisis.
Didn’t you predict war with Iraq after we took out Solemini?
 
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Exactly. Both sides have behave like cheap shot artists. Example: Obama and Romney took cheap shots in 2012. Both sides are not innocent in creating divisiveness.

We are excusing Trump’s liberate tweets, encouraging armed mass protests against local governments during a pandemic because Obama took a cheap shot a Romney?
 
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“Look at my fancy ice cream”


“LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

yeah, those are close....

Pelosi was tone deaf and I I have criticized her that she is playing politics with the issue.

People are going to die because of Trumps rhetoric here. You don’t need to “both sides” that.
There are zero examples of any politician, democrat or republican doing something so stupid during a crisis.
People are going to die from businesses being forced to close and no income once the funds dry up. Suicides, domestic violence, etc are the results what Pelosi is doing. It may not be as in your face as Trump, but anyone with a half an ounce of brains knows they have equal results. Posterize in your face dunk and a basic foul line jumper both equal 2 points.
 
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We are excusing Trump’s liberate tweets, encouraging armed mass protests against local governments during a pandemic because Obama took a cheap shot a Romney?
Where is he encouraging “armed” mass protests?
 
Didn’t you predict war with Iraq after we took out Solemini?

Predict? No, though I was concerned it could lead to one. Iran’s immediate response injured over 100 US troops. Thankfully we let it stop there.

why are we taking about that?
 
Where is he encouraging “armed” mass protests?

”LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

That tweet was to support protests occurring in Virginia. He is encouraging the protests, and encouraging people to show up with guns.
 
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”LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

That tweet was to support protests occurring in Virginia. He is encouraging the protests, and encouraging people to show up with guns.
That’s your twisted interpretation. I can understand why people are upset when the governor of Michigan, for instance is restricting movement in every possible way, but it’s still OK to go to a liquor store marijuana outlet or lottery kiosk. All things that by the way generate tax revenue for the state. The other way to interpret trumps message is that he is encouraging people to make their voice heard. Are you also OK with people drinking themselves to death at home because they can’t go out, getting high and doing something irresponsible or spending their stimulus checks on the lottery?

contrast that with Pennsylvania liquor stores are closed yet gun stores have been given a waiver. By the way, they have a Democratic governor.
 
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He officially gives the Governors the right to open/close their own state based on guidelines (which are pretty rigorous, btw), then about 12 hours later undercuts 3 of them on Twitter. And throws on meat for base over guns!! Lmao!!! It’s classic Trump.

This is how he sets the pins up. He is ALWAYS on the aggressive and now he’ll run with the mantle of civil liberties. Tomorrow it’ll be something else.
 
That’s your twisted interpretation. I can understand why people are upset when the governor of Michigan, for instance is restricting movement in every possible way, but it’s still OK to go to a liquor store marijuana outlet or lottery kiosk.


Liquor stores are open so alcoholics don’t need to go to the hospital. Marijuana dispensaries are open because doctors prescribe it as medicine. Lottery sales should not be considered essential and sales should be stopped in my opinion.


The other way to interpret trumps message is that he is encouraging people to make their voice heard.

Lol.. LIBERATE... come on. Incredibly forgiving of you there.
 
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Liquor stores are open so alcoholics don’t need to go to the hospital. Marijuana dispensaries are open because doctors prescribe it as medicine. Lottery sales should not be considered essential and sales should be stopped in my opinion.

Any consideration for the guy or lady with a temper and alcohol mixing combined with a stay home order. The spouse who gets beat because of it. The child who gets beat because of it. What about when those innocent people need to go to the hospital? Any concern for that?

just my opinion if the alcoholic has a problem let him or her risk getting Covid-19 going to the hospital. Don’t make some innocent person who was abused go to the hospital.
 
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Liquor stores are open so alcoholics don’t need to go to the hospital. Marijuana dispensaries are open because doctors prescribe it as medicine.
Those are incredibly weak arguments. Giving an alcoholic free reign in a closed environment is just as if not more dangerous.
 
Any consideration for the guy or lady with a temper and alcohol mixing combined with a stay home order. The spouse who gets beat because of it. The child who gets beat because of it. What about when those innocent people need to go to the hospital? Any concern for that?

just my opinion if the alcoholic has a problem let him or her risk getting Covid-19 going to the hospital. Don’t make some innocent person who was abused go to the hospital.

As if a lack of alcohol leads to that person being well behaved and their spouse will be fine?


It’s not about not wanting them to get Covid, it was about having the resources to treat everyone and not overwhelm the system.
 
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Those are incredibly weak arguments. Giving an alcoholic free reign in a closed environment is just as if not more dangerous.

Sure. That’s your opinion. It’s not a data point I have looked into so I don’t know how well thought out it is... but, that was the reason.

Let’s not support the idea that people should go gather on a crowd to protest their government because they just want the tax revenue.
 
As if a lack of alcohol leads to that person being well behaved and their spouse will be fine?


It’s not about not wanting them to get Covid, it was about having the resources to treat everyone and not overwhelm the system.
https://www.addictioncampuses.com/a...p-for-domestic-violence-and-alcohol-addiction

I would think it should be considered a little more when it shows 55% of domestic violence cases involves alcohol. Maybe that number is exaggerated. Maybe it’s only 33%. If we could stop 33% of cases wouldn’t it be worth it.
 
https://www.addictioncampuses.com/a...p-for-domestic-violence-and-alcohol-addiction

I would think it should be considered a little more when it shows 55% of domestic violence cases involves alcohol. Maybe that number is exaggerated. Maybe it’s only 33%. If we could stop 33% of cases wouldn’t it be worth it.

I think that’s a false comparison. I'm not sure you can say there would be a 33% drop without access to alcohol, or even a 1% drop. A person who would hit their spouse does not deserve an excuse that they only did it because of the alcohol. They were likely a horrible person before they had a drink.
 
Liquor stores are open so alcoholics don’t need to go to the hospital.

Another twisted....nah....sick...interpretation.
 
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”LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

That tweet was to support protests occurring in Virginia. He is encouraging the protests, and encouraging people to show up with guns.

Yes, exactly. There are reports that 50,000 or more have mobilized with small arms, armored vehicles, TOW missiles, .50 cals, and are moving on the state capital as we speak.
 
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Yes, exactly. There are reports that 50,000 or more have mobilized with small arms, armored vehicles, TOW missiles, .50 cals, and are moving on the state capitals as we speak.

Encouraging these protests is going to cause an increased number of people showing up.
Talking about the 2nd amendment is encouraging them to bring guns.

This has potential to spread the virus further, extend the stay at home orders and cause additional death.

What should the state do in response? Just let these idiots hurt the state?

Trump is increasing tensions and it is going to result in people dying.
 
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I think that’s a false comparison. I'm not sure you can say there would be a 33% drop without access to alcohol, or even a 1% drop. A person who would hit their spouse does not deserve an excuse that they only did it because of the alcohol. They were likely a horrible person before they had a drink.
Ok. Then no comparison could ever be made. My great grandfather lived to be almost 100, smoked a pipe every day. He worked on a farm and for the most part only ate what he grew. Does tobacco itself cause cancer or does the tobacco combined with the impact of sugar, environmental factors, etc cause cancer. Maybe they should lift all taxes on cigarettes because we may only the know the true impact of cancer and cigarettes if all things are perfect and cigarettes alone are tested.
 
Ok. Then no comparison could ever be made. My great grandfather lived to be almost 100, smoked a pipe every day. He worked on a farm and for the most part only ate what he grew. Does tobacco itself cause cancer or does the tobacco combined with the impact of sugar, environmental factors, etc cause cancer. Maybe they should lift all taxes on cigarettes because may only the know the true impact of cancer and cigarettes if all things are perfect and cigarettes alone are tested.

The reason alcohol is obtainable right now is because the governors were cautioned that if alcoholics do not have access to alcohol, it would lead to unintended consequences including an increase of hospitalizations.

You are making the claim that if liqueur stores were closed that the number of potential domestic abuse crimes would decrease.
The problem with your logic/assumption is assuming that the domestic abuse cases which involved alcohol would not occur without alcohol. It's a thought you have without much else to support the claim.
 
It's the actual reason.

You can disagree with it if you would like, but that is the reason.

Correct me if I am misinterpreting what I believe you are saying.

Are you are saying the sole reason the governors have allowed liquor stores to remain open is because it will prevent alcoholics from having to go to the hospital?

If that is correct, then I would love to hear how you arrived at that conclusion.
 
Correct me if I am misinterpreting what I believe you are saying.

Are you are saying the sole reason the governors have allowed liquor stores to remain open is because it will prevent alcoholics from having to go to the hospital?

If that is correct, then I would love to hear how you arrived at that conclusion.
You would have so many with withdrawal symptoms not knowing how to detox in a healthy way
 
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It's a compelling debate for sure. The balance between civil liberties and what constitutes public safety in a society like ours has been one of the central debates since the founding of this country. It's always been a pendulum and always will be. That's the design.

I remember my 8th grade history teacher drilling the concept that people are willing to trade some degree of freedom in exchange for safety.

The numbers appear to be showing that this thing has slowed. The pressure to open things back up will continue to rise. I hope that pressure is eased before something erupts. The stay at home is not sustainable.
 
You would have so many with withdrawal symptoms not knowing how to detox in a healthy way

I get that. However, there were other reasons why they chose to keep liquor store open.

On a related anecdotal note, by coincidence, we've been binge watching Boardwalk Empire on Prime. For those not familiar, it's about 1920s prohibition mobs. Lotsa focus on bootlegging. Spilling into heroin also. 80% of the characters are base on real persons. One takeaway for me is that Alcohol use in part of our DNA. You can go back many centuries BC and there is evidence of brewing and distillation. The global liquor market is $1.5 trillion.
 
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