Georgia opening up

[knowknow456]

Yeah, I do think we are under reported since the current mortality rate is 5.6% in the US. That seems too high from other data around the world.

S. Korea in my opinion offers the best estimate since they shut everything down and went for a large amount of testing right away.
Less than 2% of their tests have returned positive (20% for us) . There is a fair amount of confidence that they did better job identifying cases than anywhere else and enough time has passed where the number of new cases and the number of new deaths have been very low (close to zero), so the numbers are not likely to change much.

Their current mortality rate is 2.24%.

I haven't seen much data suggesting that it would drop much below 2%. There will be some variance based on age and health of the overall population, but I don't think the US is particularly young or healthy compared to the rest of the world.

Since the virus seems easily transmissible and no one had been exposed to the virus before this year, it would seem the maximum risk would be the entire population of the United States contracting the virus. If 2% die, our losses are 6.5 million people. Maybe that takes six months, maybe it takes two years, maybe we have a vaccine and we never get to 100%. In addition, it is possible we do not sustain a 2% death rate as we find out the true rate of infection and/or we are able to find treatments that aid in recovery.

There are a lot of unknowns. But 6.5 million deaths is the high end.

 

[HALL85]

Their current mortality rate is 2.24%.

I haven't seen much data suggesting that it would drop much below 2%. There will be some variance based on age and health of the overall population, but I don't think the US is particularly young or healthy compared to the rest of the world.

You raise a great point in that we are NOT as healthy a country as many other industrialized nations. And the early data is showing that those with comorbidities are accounting for the majority of cases and fatalities. A pandemic like this shines a light on our health and the impact it has on the results. My guess is that this will get ignored by the politicians and MSM because it doesn't make for good sound bytes or ratings.

 

[shu09]

You raise a great point in that we are NOT as healthy a country as many other industrialized nations. And the early data is showing that those with comorbidities are accounting for the majority of cases and fatalities. A pandemic like this shines a light on our health and the impact it has on the results. My guess is that this will get ignored by the politicians and MSM because it doesn't make for good sound bytes or ratings.

@SHUHoopsFan has been beating this drum for a while and he's right.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

@SHUHoopsFan has been beating this drum for a while and he's right.

Make America Healthy Again. The government and the lobbyists promote a lifestyle that gets our immune system down and has us in a negative starting point when it comes to combatting a virus or any disease. I’m no genius, but this isn’t brain surgery. There would be less fatalities without preexisting conditions. The human body can only handle so much fake food a day. Anything that can be held on a shelf for a couple weeks can’t be real food. Even most of our healthy food isn’t healthy due to pesticides and gmo processes. Amazing how every apple is the same size in a store. Lol

 

[Merge]

Make America Healthy Again. The government and the lobbyists promote a lifestyle that gets our immune system down and has us in a negative starting point when it comes to combatting a virus or any disease. I’m no genius, but this isn’t brain surgery. There would be less fatalities without preexisting conditions. The human body can only handle so much fake food a day. Anything that can be held on a shelf for a couple weeks can’t be real food. Even most of our healthy food isn’t healthy due to pesticides and gmo processes. Amazing how every apple is the same size in a store. Lol

I'm with you on most of that. I try to make good choices most of the time with some bad choices here and there.

I'm not yet convinced the the gmo process is necessarily bad itself. Would be bad in the sense that creating produce which is not killed by pesticides means growers can use more pesticides on our foods than they have historically and we end up ingesting more, but I don't think breeding a larger better tasting apple is bad.

I could be wrong, that is my general understanding. Willing to learn more on the topic though.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Make America Healthy Again. The government and the lobbyists promote a lifestyle that gets our immune system down and has us in a negative starting point when it comes to combatting a virus or any disease. I’m no genius, but this isn’t brain surgery. There would be less fatalities without preexisting conditions. The human body can only handle so much fake food a day. Anything that can be held on a shelf for a couple weeks can’t be real food. Even most of our healthy food isn’t healthy due to pesticides and gmo processes. Amazing how every apple is the same size in a store. Lol

Trump hosts college teams with fast food spread

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Trump hosts college teams with fast food spread[/

Michelle Obama had great intentions and magically the lobbyists made her roll back her plan not to impact them and she let them. Trump is an idiot on this topic. No doubt about it. Like any other person he has his pros and cons. Michelle Obama is in tune with this and she didn't care enough to battle the lobbyists. That to me is even more pathetic. Let's Move was all about nutrition and activity which changed to mainly activity and limited nutrition.

https://thinkprogress.org/how-big-f...elle-obamas-let-s-move-campaign-85d09b60607b/

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I'm with you on most of that. I try to make good choices most of the time with some bad choices here and there.

I'm not yet convinced the the gmo process is necessarily bad itself. Would be bad in the sense that creating produce which is not killed by pesticides means growers can use more pesticides on our foods than they have historically and we end up ingesting more, but I don't think breeding a larger better tasting apple is bad.

I could be wrong, that is my general understanding. Willing to learn more on the topic though.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/gmos-and-pesticides/

Linked to alzheimer's and parkinsons later in life. I try to drink 1-2 fresh green vegetable juices per day. I'm no saint. I love a good s'mores more than anyone, but the promotion of bad stuff vs good stuff is terrible.

 

[donnie_baseball]

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/gmos-and-pesticides/

Linked to alzheimer's and parkinsons later in life. I try to drink 1-2 fresh green vegetable juices per day. I'm no saint. I love a good s'mores more than anyone, but the promotion of bad stuff vs good stuff is terrible.

That article actually shows the BENEFIT of GMO's. People like to throw the term around as if it's an absolute evil, but a friend of mine who is a Warren county farmer likes to say, "No pest control, no food." And so what if all the apples are biologically modified to look the same? Theyr're not irradiated, like a Gilligan's Island episode. Genetic modification of food has allowed us to continue to grow food on a scale that is enough to feed people in a nation of our size.

 

[shu09]

Excellent article here. It is an opinion piece, but fact-based. We are quickly approaching the point where we are doing more harm than good, economically and medically.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

That article actually shows the BENEFIT of GMO's. People like to throw the term around as if it's an absolute evil, but a friend of mine who is a Warren county farmer likes to say, "No pest control, no food." And so what if all the apples are biologically modified to look the same? Theyr're not irradiated, like a Gilligan's Island episode. Genetic modification of food has allowed us to continue to grow food on a scale that is enough to feed people in a nation of our size.

Did you read the whole article? It shows the good and the bad. It was an article that people can read and make up their own mind. I'm not going to say it's all bad or it's all good. I could've easily put up an article that showed just my opinion. I thought the article was fair. But there are also articles out there that say farmers are being misled to think they need GMOs and pesticides, when they really don't. Then you can find find a bunch of articles that say the organic movement is pure BS. As I've said in other posts, you never know about these studies as they are rarely independent. Would pesticide and GMO corporations ever pay for a study to prove their right? Only in America. And I'm sure the same could be said for a wealthy eco friendly group. It all comes down to who you believe. Just my opinion, corporations have destroyed the meat industry with additives and preservatives, I'm willing to bet on corporations have no issue messing with the produce industry as well.

 

[knowknow456]

As I said, I'm comfortable with zero deaths. Nobody in their right mind would be comfortable with anyone dying.

Acceptable is different, given the situation that we face because of China's recklessness. This is a war, the politicians say. Well, wars have casualties. I would say something under 100,000 would be acceptable. We will come in well under that according to most models. 100,000 is 0.03% of the US population.

The casualty rate is approaching 100,000. Is there an updated acceptable number of casualties?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

The casualty rate is approaching 100,000. Is there an updated acceptable number of casualties?

Based on the past few administrations not doing anything about 600,000 deaths by heart disease per year, you probably have a long ways to go. 1 in 4 deaths caused by it, apparently isn’t good enough to give it MAJOR attention. If only Michelle Obama stuck with the nutrition and exercise model, I think we would’ve made huge progress. The lobbyists threw tons of money to prevent that from happening.

 

[knowknow456]

Based on the past few administrations not doing anything about 600,000 deaths by heart disease per year, you probably have a long ways to go. 1 in 4 deaths caused by it, apparently isn’t good enough to give it MAJOR attention. If only Michelle Obama stuck with the nutrition and exercise model, I think we would’ve made huge progress. The lobbyists threw tons of money to prevent that from happening.

So for you the acceptable number of Covid-19 deaths is 600,000.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

So for you the acceptable number of Covid-19 deaths is 600,000.

Did I say that was my position? Not at all. Acceptable deaths is 0 for coronavirus, the flu, heart disease, automobile deaths, drugs, alcohol, etc. However we don’t stop or change our way of life any of the others. Kind of odd. Especially with 600,000 deaths by heart disease. Our government isn’t taking high fructose corn syrup products off the shelves to help fight childhood obesity. Is there any acceptable number of obese children? Apparently to the government there is because they’re not helping protect the children from those items as well grown ups marketing directly to them.

 

[knowknow456]

Acceptable deaths is 0 for coronavirus, the flu, heart disease, automobile deaths, drugs, alcohol, etc.

shu09 does not agree. He accepted an upper limit of 100,000 Covid-19 casualties. Since we are more or less at that number, I asked him for an updated number of acceptable casualties.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

shu09 does not agree. He accepted an upper limit of 100,000 Covid-19 casualties. Since we are more or less at that number, I asked him for an updated number of acceptable casualties.

I think you’re twisting his words.

To my knowledge none of us are grammar experts but we all know what each other means. I can take your dumb comment of casualty rate of 100,000. That’s not a rate at all. The rate is 6% in the US and the total is 100,000. If I take your words, word for word I can say you’re an idiot. But I know what you meant and you’re not an idiot. Just don’t take his statements word for word. If we do that we’re all going down a slippery slope.

 

[knowknow456]

I think you’re twisting his words.

To my knowledge none of us are grammar experts but we all know what each other means. I can take your dumb comment of casualty rate of 100,000. That’s not a rate at all. The rate is 6% in the US and the total is 100,000. If I take your words, word for word I can say you’re an idiot. But I know what you meant and you’re not an idiot. Just don’t take his statements word for word. If we do that we’re all going down a slippery slope.

To avoid twisting - here are the words from April 21.

QUOTE As I said, I'm comfortable with zero deaths. Nobody in their right mind would be comfortable with anyone dying.

Acceptable is different, given the situation that we face because of China's recklessness. This is a war, the politicians say. Well, wars have casualties. I would say something under 100,000 would be acceptable. We will come in well under that according to most models. 100,000 is 0.03% of the US population. UNQUOTE

You accept 0 deaths. On April 21, he stated "something under 100,000 would be acceptable". As of May 29, the nation has exceeded his stated upper limit.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

To avoid twisting - here are the words from April 21.

QUOTE As I said, I'm comfortable with zero deaths. Nobody in their right mind would be comfortable with anyone dying.

Acceptable is different, given the situation that we face because of China's recklessness. This is a war, the politicians say. Well, wars have casualties. I would say something under 100,000 would be acceptable. We will come in well under that according to most models. 100,000 is 0.03% of the US population. UNQUOTE

You accept 0 deaths. On April 21, he stated "something under 100,000 would be acceptable". As of May 29, the nation has exceeded his stated upper limit.

So you’ve been sitting there since April 21 waiting for this moment? I hope you feel good you got your dig in.

For the rest of the board who aren’t just looking to throw digs at people, The fact of the matter is coronavirus wouldn’t have killed as many people if we took care of ourselves better as a country. It amazes me how they count someone with tons of complications as a coronavirus statistic.

 

[knowknow456]

So you’ve been sitting there since April 21 waiting for this moment? I hope you feel good you got your dig in.

For the rest of the board who aren’t just looking to throw digs at people, The fact of the matter is coronavirus wouldn’t have killed as many people if we took care of ourselves better as a country. It amazes me how they count someone with tons of complications as a coronavirus statistic.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[HALL85]

So you’ve been sitting there since April 21 waiting for this moment? I hope you feel good you got your dig in.

For the rest of the board who aren’t just looking to throw digs at people, The fact of the matter is coronavirus wouldn’t have killed as many people if we took care of ourselves better as a country. It amazes me how they count someone with tons of complications as a coronavirus statistic.

As the data continues to be compiled, it's becoming more evident that we 1) failed protecting nursing home patients in several states and 2) are a very unhealthy population that has consequences when exposed to a virus like this.

 

[knowknow456]

Zero.

But 60,000 in a country of 327 million is a drop in the bucket. Same with 6,000 in a state with 9 million people.

Over 7,000 people die in America every single day from all kinds of things. It's sad. But we move on for bettering the lives of those of us who are still around.

We just reached our second drop in the bucket.

 

[shu09]

We just reached our second drop in the bucket.

It's a slightly bigger drop, but it's still a drop.

 

[HALL85]

Heart disease kills 600,000 people EVERY year....that’s a lot of drops if you really care about unnecessary loss of life.

 

[Merge]

Heart disease kills 600,000 people EVERY year....that’s a lot of drops if you really care about unnecessary loss of life.

and if a bad diet was contagious, that might be a good comparison.... and just because people are concerned about an infectious disease, that doesn’t mean they are not concerned with other health issues.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

If only our politicians didn’t let people protest. Murphy stopped that Toms River lady in April. Should’ve cracked down more. He should resign.

 

[HALL85]

and if a bad diet was contagious, that might be a good comparison.... and just because people are concerned about an infectious disease, that doesn’t mean they are not concerned with other health issues.

We’ve been down that rabbit hole. Lobbyists and government forcing processed foods at us; lack of education and personal responsibility to eat right. We can save many more lives than COVID will ever take.

 

[The Crows Nest]

What’s the number that you are comfortable with dying?

lol

well not really that funny... but his take is really weird.
It’s ok people are dying from something that didn’t exist a few months ago... meaning these people were not going to die without this. But it’s ok... they’re old!

Some people just care about themselves.

 

[The Crows Nest]

When there is a plan in place where the modeling meets your goal that ensures less than 100k deaths. Ideally much less, but 100k being towards the high range.

I think we are close, and I would guess the 2nd or 3rd week of May.

Yeah we’ve blown past that. But hey... it’s still a Drop in the bucket... as some people would say.
Yikes... zero empathy for those poor families of all those “drops in the bucket” that died

 

[The Crows Nest]

But how do you know and assure that you asymptomatically wont pass along to others?

He doesn’t care about other people. Simple answer. Sad

 

[The Crows Nest]

You're range estimate is way too high for the flu. More than double what we experience in a normal year.
We have gone over 60k once in the last 10 years.

but to be clear, we didn't shut down because Covid would hit 60k. We should down so Covid wouldn't be hundreds of thousands into the millions. We shut down so it would be double that of a normal flu season.

The risk to Sweden is that not shutting down early means their system will be overloaded in a few weeks and then they end up having to go through a lockdown anyway.

Well it’s 4 times the last flu season now. In a fraction of the time

 

[The Crows Nest]

You raise a great point in that we are NOT as healthy a country as many other industrialized nations. And the early data is showing that those with comorbidities are accounting for the majority of cases and fatalities. A pandemic like this shines a light on our health and the impact it has on the results. My guess is that this will get ignored by the politicians and MSM because it doesn't make for good sound bytes or ratings.

Just FYI before people go thinking “comorbid condition” signals people who are simply irresponsible, 1 in 2 adults... that’s half for those if you keeping score... have high blood pressure. That’s just ONE comorbid condition.
So... it’s actually likely that nearly 3/4 of adults have one...diabetes... cancer survivor... etc

think about that for a moment. The minority of adults DONT have a comorbid condition

 

[HALL85]

Just FYI before people go thinking “comorbid condition” signals people who are simply irresponsible, 1 in 2 adults... that’s half for those if you keeping score... have high blood pressure. That’s just ONE comorbid condition.
So... it’s actually likely that nearly 3/4 of adults have one...diabetes... cancer survivor... etc

think about that for a moment. The minority of adults DONT have a comorbid condition

That’s not correct... and BTW, cancer survival is not one of the comorbitities. No disputing our population is not as healthy as other industrialized nations, and that it has driven our numbers higher.

 

[knowknow456]

Zero.

But 60,000 in a country of 327 million is a drop in the bucket. Same with 6,000 in a state with 9 million people.

Over 7,000 people die in America every single day from all kinds of things. It's sad. But we move on for bettering the lives of those of us who are still around.

We just reached our third drop in the bucket

 

[shu09]

We just reached our third drop in the bucket

Yes, we have. As you know, three drops in a bucket is still incredibly small in the grand scheme.

 

[knowknow456]

As I said, I'm comfortable with zero deaths. Nobody in their right mind would be comfortable with anyone dying.

Acceptable is different, given the situation that we face because of China's recklessness. This is a war, the politicians say. Well, wars have casualties. I would say something under 100,000 would be acceptable. We will come in well under that according to most models. 100,000 is 0.03% of the US population.

 

[shu09]

Looks like your precious models were wrong!

 

[knowknow456]

Four drops in the bucket

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Four drops in the bucket

Worried about 4 drops in a bucket in almost one year but we ignore 11 drops in the bucket every year for the past 25 years. Every loss of life is tragic, but when you look at the big picture of disease, your priorities are just dumb if you spend the bulk of your time concerned about covid. My guess is if we attacked the 11 drops in a bucket per year with shut downs of high fructose corn syrup and unnatural substances we consume, we’d have stronger immune systems and the 4 drops in a bucket would only be 2, most likely caused by dumb politicians who didn't protect the elderly. A task force on Covid is coming. Why? I don't know when you have gems like Fauci. A task for force on heart disease?

Heart Disease Facts | cdc.gov

Learn facts about how race, ethnicity, age, and other risk factors can contribute to heart disease risk.

www.cdc.gov

 

[shu09]

Worried about 4 drops in a bucket in almost one year but we ignore 11 drops in the bucket every year for the past 25 years. Every loss of life is tragic, but when you look at the big picture of disease, your priorities are just dumb if you spend the bulk of your time concerned about covid. My guess is if we attacked the 11 drops in a bucket per year with shut downs of high fructose corn syrup and unnatural substances we consume, we’d have stronger immune systems and the 4 drops in a bucket would only be 2, most likely caused by dumb politicians who didn't protect the elderly. A task force on Covid is coming. Why? I don't know when you have gems like Fauci. A task for force on heart disease?

Heart Disease Facts | cdc.gov

Learn facts about how race, ethnicity, age, and other risk factors can contribute to heart disease risk.

www.cdc.gov

Thank you for being a voice of reason through all the hysteria and nonsense this year. Well said.