Too much drama
- Thread starter SHUTAPS76
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I am to young to have seen him play, but the stories my dad has told me lead me to believe that he would be a tremendous player in any era. Throwing a baseball at high velocity is a gift. You can't train to throw 95+. Sure you can add afew MPH but if you are not born with the gift you can't get someone who throws 70's to throw 90's.
This being said, there were less teams and more concentrated talent so certainly pitchers who threw every bit as hard. They didn't specialize like they do today so middle relief didn't really exist.
The HR Dan mentioned that nearly went out of Yankee stadium my father saw on TV. Said it sounded like a gunshot off the bat. It hit off the facade still not having reached it's apex. It bounced back and landed on field of play behind second baseman.
Legend also has it he hit a ball in high school out which cleared the football field beyond the fence and landed in a revine, estimated over 600ft.
Bottom line is the guy was a freak talent with immense power.
This being said, there were less teams and more concentrated talent so certainly pitchers who threw every bit as hard. They didn't specialize like they do today so middle relief didn't really exist.
The HR Dan mentioned that nearly went out of Yankee stadium my father saw on TV. Said it sounded like a gunshot off the bat. It hit off the facade still not having reached it's apex. It bounced back and landed on field of play behind second baseman.
Legend also has it he hit a ball in high school out which cleared the football field beyond the fence and landed in a revine, estimated over 600ft.
Bottom line is the guy was a freak talent with immense power.
While I agree that Baseball was the sport at the time Mantle was playing, there were far few people in the US and the world which means the talent pool was much shallower and as a result, there were far few talented players so a player of Mantle's ability stood out much more then they he would now.
There is no doubt he was one of the greats of his generation, I am just not sure how well he would compete in today's game against bigger, stronger and faster players.
Ha, you could say that about a lot of modern day guys too...especially Doc Gooden
They were cheap because their cheapness didn't have a downside . Like the Dodgers were with drysdale and koufax. Before the Flood....
Can Mantle's 565-foot homer be matched?
http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/34952/can-mantles-565-foot-homer-be-matched
http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/34952/can-mantles-565-foot-homer-be-matched
Makes for a fun argument. I understand you point. However, you have to take into consideration the training and nutrition advantages that modern era players now enjoy. Mantle probably never lifted a weight in his life and yet was able to hit the greatest tape measure home runs of all time with a dead ball and bum knee.
That of course was The Mick during an exhibition game at the Dome. Unfortunately again I am old enough to have watched that game on WPIX 11.
There are certain atheletes across the ages who would have been great in any era. Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron and Willie Mays are three of them. I had the pleasure to see all of these players and they were men among boys. The average baseball player today is probably faster and stronger than the players of the 50s and 60s but they also have better nutrition and training. Give these advantages to Mays, Aaron and Mantle and they would be among today's superstars. Also you keep arguing that the talent pool was shallow compared to today. That is not close to true. All of these players played in integrated times and there were only 16 teams for most of their careers. Therefore, there a lot less major league spots available. In addition this time period was the golden age of baseball and most of the better atheletes of their time chose baseball instead of football and basketball. That is no longer true. I am not diminishing the ability of today's players. I am just saying that every generation has some freaks that would always be among the stars of the game. Mantle is clearly one of them.
Wasn't there grass in the Astrodome when it opened before it all died, hence the need for AstroTurf?
Too lazy to look up what was on the field when the Yankees played that exhibition.
Too lazy to look up what was on the field when the Yankees played that exhibition.
Maybe I'm old school, but I'm not really a fan of all of the weights in baseball. The game is too reliant on the long ball. Stealing bases, bunting, hitting behind runners, don't happen as often as they should. Guys strike out at a much higher rate swinging for the fences. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.
As for pitchers, arm injuries are such a normal part of the game now it's sad. Harvey was phenom for 2 years and now he's nothing. Noah on the DL after putting on 20 lbs of muscle in the offseason. Their bodies can not flexible enough to do an unnatural motion over 90MPH 100 times in 1 day. Guys used to throw complete games in 4 day rotations. Maybe they weren't hitting 95 MPH as frequently but they knew how to pitch.
I must have been 8 or 9 years old and there... for all to see on the back page of the Daily News was a picture of The Mick, Whitey and Billy.... bleary eyed and obviously under the influence leaving a NY night spot in the wee hours. NOOOOOOOOO... not the Mick, I thought. Billy & Whitey.. yes... but NOT the Mick.
He often said that he wished he had taken better care of himself. He thought that he would face the same fate as his dad and the rest of his family members who pass at an early age.
He often said that he wished he had taken better care of himself. He thought that he would face the same fate as his dad and the rest of his family members who pass at an early age.
Only saw this once in my life at any level of baseball.
Mickey Mantle hit a ball so hard in a game against Minnesota that he took the glove off the third baseman and the ball and glove landed in short left field.
Saw the game on TV so it's not a legendary story colored years later.
Mickey Mantle hit a ball so hard in a game against Minnesota that he took the glove off the third baseman and the ball and glove landed in short left field.
Saw the game on TV so it's not a legendary story colored years later.
And before he hurt his knee in 51, he used to bunt for singles batting left handed despite all that power. No one in the history of baseball got down to first base as fast as he did. He also had a cannon for an arm. Great player who shortened his career through injuries and poor lifestyle choices. He could have been one of the greatest of all time.
Same can be said for the Babe. Heard a story that he used to eat 12 hot dogs in between double header games.
I don't get the statistics here. If EVERYONE played baseball back then, and just some play it now, the available talent pools are similar in population size. I believe that was Dan's point.
He wolfed down many a hot dog at the old Pals Cabin restaurant in West Orange when it was a little more than a roadside stand in the 20s and 30s.
They are in no way similar as you have kids from 10 other countries playing in the majors, not just white Americans.
As I said, I think Mantle was a tremendous ball player in his day, I just can't see him having the same type of success in today's game.
You're right. Given the advantages today's athletes have and the medical expertise in dealing with injuries he would not have had the same success. He would have been better.
Great players, and maybe the most physically talented person to ever play the game in this instance, would have dominated in any era. Not to recognized that is just lending a blind eye to reality,
Great players, and maybe the most physically talented person to ever play the game in this instance, would have dominated in any era. Not to recognized that is just lending a blind eye to reality,
I like to think that the greats can play in any era. And I do believe that is true with regard to pitching. However, with positional players, it just isn't true. Today's players are bigger, stronger and faster. They have to face pitchers who the average major leaguer throws in the 90's and many in the high to mid 90's. That didn't even happen in the 80's and 90's. The specialized relievers was not part of the game back then. The game is much different and tougher to play now. Late in games, they batted against tired starting pitchers instead of a middle reliever with an electric fastball.
Mantle was 6' 200 lbs and would be considered small for a power hitter. People like to compare Mike Trout to Mantle but Trout is a much bigger and stronger guy. Mantle's numbers would not be so dominant in today's game. However, could he still have played and been an All-Star, I do believe that would be the case.
Mantle was 6' 200 lbs and would be considered small for a power hitter. People like to compare Mike Trout to Mantle but Trout is a much bigger and stronger guy. Mantle's numbers would not be so dominant in today's game. However, could he still have played and been an All-Star, I do believe that would be the case.
Where 296 was a HR???Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the NY Daily News photo of that home run.
The next time Trout hits a home run that travels over 500 feet or hits one off the top of Yankee Stadium then we'll talk about his being stronger than Mantle.
If Mantle was playing today he would have the same advantages that the current players have as regards to playing the game.
Foolish not think a man that gifted by God would not be a FORCE in the game today. And by force I mean a dominating one.
It was, but it was also like 470 to left center. The original (or at least the most remembered) dimensions of the pre-renovation stadium were so unusual. And it wasn't just Yankee Stadium, either. The Polo Grounds were 251 down the left-field line, but 490(!) to straightaway center. I remember learning about the Polo Grounds (I'm not as ancient as HallDan, SPK or batts to have seen these guys or places firsthand!
) and realizing when I was 12 I could've popped one out down the line there ... as long as I was facing another 12-year-old!
What so many don't take into consideration is that hitting a baseball far is more than just being strong.
You hit the ball for power with your legs, bat speed and strong wrist action.
Mantle had legs like tree trunks That's where he got his power from. He also had gigantic wrists.
If hitting a ball for power is so easy way hasn't anyone come close to what Mantle did hitting the top facade in the Stadium? Mantle did that in a real game. No one has come close since and I'm including batting practice.
Saying Trout is stronger than Mantle is really questionable at best. But no one will ever say he could hit a ball as far, or run as fast.
I love Trout as a baseball player and wish he got close to the publicity he deserves. So in no way am I ragging on him. Trout is special now as was Mantle then.
You hit the ball for power with your legs, bat speed and strong wrist action.
Mantle had legs like tree trunks That's where he got his power from. He also had gigantic wrists.
If hitting a ball for power is so easy way hasn't anyone come close to what Mantle did hitting the top facade in the Stadium? Mantle did that in a real game. No one has come close since and I'm including batting practice.
Saying Trout is stronger than Mantle is really questionable at best. But no one will ever say he could hit a ball as far, or run as fast.
I love Trout as a baseball player and wish he got close to the publicity he deserves. So in no way am I ragging on him. Trout is special now as was Mantle then.
Mantle didn't play in the 40s.
The guy who always challenged him to a foot race was Pedro Ramos. The other speedster in the AL that some thought might challenge Mantle in a foot race was Luis Aparicio. My second favorite Yankee was Hector Lopez.
The home run hitters of Mantle's era were Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks, Frank Robinson, Willie Mays.
Just some examples off the top of my head related to Mantle in some fashion. Not all white Americans. I still maintain that the talent population sizes are similar. Maybe now might have a size advantage, but not by a lot.
In those days, the U.S. population was nearly half what it is today, By my remembrance, nearly half the boys in my town played some form of baseball somewhat regularly. No way do we see ¼ of today's kids playing baseball. (In the last 30 years in Red Bank, other than the high school team walking to practice, I've only seen kids walking with a bat or glove once, never ever saw anyone playing street ball or even catch.)
The talent pool in MLB is diluted today. Too many teams, too many players.
IIRC, The Newark Evening News (precursor to the Ledger) story said Mantle's HR off Stobbs actually took a small piece of the Griffith Stadium scoreboard off on its way out. He was batting right handed when that was hit. The light tower HR which I saw, was hit while batting from the left side. Obviously the population was less back then, but it 's wrong to say there were less talented players than there are today. In the 50's & early 60s, there were fewer major league teams then today, and they all had a number of minor league teams. I don't recall competitive lacrosse, soccer, track, golf, tennis, wrestling, basketball & football capturing the public's participation and interest anything close to what it is today.
If I recall correctly, Strawberry may have come close in Montreal. He hit a ball that was still going up when it hit the roof of the stadium.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...8AF22AF167F5B65F9A1E8AF22AF167F5B65&FORM=VIRE
All you need to do is look at my profile picture... Just taking his first 5 years in account, he is the GOAT. I have watched practically every game of his young career.. I could care less how far Mantle hit HR's. Nobody in the history of the game has had the total complete package that Trout has.. If he played anywhere near NY, people would be blowing him up non stop
