Covid Deaths in PA

[cernjSHU]

No one has been “right” all the time about this COVID mess. Shu09 has been pretty consistent on his logic throughout this, and I find myself either agreeing with what he says many times or at least acknowledging there is some sense to it.

I’m vaccinated but the illogical restrictions, contradictory rules and other aspect of this, including how we’ve treated our kids as a society in certain parts of the country, is mind-boggling. And something we are going to look back on a decade from now and wish we did differently.

This hypocrisy extends to our own program. From other posts, and related “silence” from connected folks about the topic, it is pretty clear we have unvaccinated players. And I don’t understand how some folks so concerned about the risk, safety and morality of this - and adamant about both vaccines and restrictions - are able to wave their pom-poms and ignore that. Be consistent.

While no one has been right 100% about CoVid, Shu09 has been consistently wrong. And if you agreed with him, then no wonder why you may feel a kinship to him. but that does not take away how wrong he was and is.

You have seemed to go off on mask wearing and other restrictions. Yeah some of the things may have been too much. But health officials always want to err on the side of being too cautious. When you see that is their angle and not some nefarious government control aspect, I think most people tend to shrug it off. I have disagreements with some policies too. But, I am don't see this as the government is trying to take away freedoms and rights from the people. That is just nonsense which then makes logical discussion impossible to have. That is what SHU09 argues. I feel bad about the businesses that were impacted and lost during the shut down. But as some business were lost, many others had their best year ever. It is sort of the many contradictions that happen.

With regard to any other restrictions that remain, if everyone were to get vaccinated, the restrictions would go as well. But, we have this wacked out anti vaxed movement and people will never get vaxed. It is just pretty stupid. In the end, SHU09 did the right thing and got vaccinated. I applaud him for doing that because that is the right thing to do.

With regard to our players, I believe they should all be faxed or don't play. but I can't comment because I don't know their status.

 

[Hallsome]

While no one has been right 100% about CoVid, Shu09 has been consistently wrong. And if you agreed with him, then no wonder why you may feel a kinship to him. but that does not take away how wrong he was and is.

You have seemed to go off on mask wearing and other restrictions. Yeah some of the things may have been too much. But health officials always want to err on the side of being too cautious. When you see that is their angle and not some nefarious government control aspect, I think most people tend to shrug it off. I have disagreements with some policies too. But, I am don't see this as the government is trying to take away freedoms and rights from the people. That is just nonsense which then makes logical discussion impossible to have. That is what SHU09 argues. I feel bad about the businesses that were impacted and lost during the shut down. But as some business were lost, many others had their best year ever. It is sort of the many contradictions that happen.

With regard to any other restrictions that remain, if everyone were to get vaccinated, the restrictions would go as well. But, we have this wacked out anti vaxed movement and people will never get vaxed. It is just pretty stupid. In the end, SHU09 did the right thing and got vaccinated. I applaud him for doing that because that is the right thing to do.

With regard to our players, I believe they should all be faxed or don't play. but I can't comment because I don't know their status.

Nice of you to share your opinions.

 

[HALL85]

While no one has been right 100% about CoVid, Shu09 has been consistently wrong. And if you agreed with him, then no wonder why you may feel a kinship to him. but that does not take away how wrong he was and is.

You have seemed to go off on mask wearing and other restrictions. Yeah some of the things may have been too much. But health officials always want to err on the side of being too cautious. When you see that is their angle and not some nefarious government control aspect, I think most people tend to shrug it off. I have disagreements with some policies too. But, I am don't see this as the government is trying to take away freedoms and rights from the people. That is just nonsense which then makes logical discussion impossible to have. That is what SHU09 argues. I feel bad about the businesses that were impacted and lost during the shut down. But as some business were lost, many others had their best year ever. It is sort of the many contradictions that happen.

With regard to any other restrictions that remain, if everyone were to get vaccinated, the restrictions would go as well. But, we have this wacked out anti vaxed movement and people will never get vaxed. It is just pretty stupid. In the end, SHU09 did the right thing and got vaccinated. I applaud him for doing that because that is the right thing to do.

With regard to our players, I believe they should all be faxed or don't play. but I can't comment because I don't know their status.

Talk about a “slant”,,,,what’s with the anger?

The vaccine and mask issue has been highly politicized. A lot of poor leadership on both sides. And the collateral damage done to our society for years may end up being worse than the casualties.

Unfortunately, very few people are interested in having an objective dialogue. I feel for parents with school age children, and I understand what dehere is concerned. These kids ability to learn and socialize has been turned upside down. We won’t know for years how irreparable the damage is.

 

[cernjSHU]

Talk about a “slant”,,,,what’s with the anger?

The vaccine and mask issue has been highly politicized. A lot of poor leadership on both sides. And the collateral damage done to our society for years may end up being worse than the casualties.

Unfortunately, very few people are interested in having an objective dialogue. I feel for parents with school age children, and I understand what dehere is concerned. These kids ability to learn and socialize has been turned upside down. We won’t know for years how irreparable the damage is.

Lol, no anger at all.

I have to laugh at this doomsday view of the collateral damage done to children by having to go remote. While that is certainly not something people want, you really think kids are going to be damged by this? The one year at home has made children just want to stay home and not talk to friends except on their phones and through video games. Oh wait, kids have been doing that for years now. The kids will be just fine.

Talk about politicizing things.

 

[HALL85]

Lol, no anger at all.

I have to laugh at this doomsday view of the collateral damage done to children by having to go remote. While that is certainly not something people want, you really think kids are going to be damged by this? The one year at home has made children just want to stay home and not talk to friends except on their phones and through video games. Oh wait, kids have been doing that for years now. The kids will be just fine.

Talk about politicizing things.

Well, for one, the Surgeon General disagrees with you, unless you think he is all about politics.

https://www.latimes.com/california/...ral-advisory-youth-mental-health-crisis-looms

Dehere strikes me as a parent that is very involved and dialed in to the challenges and impact on his kids.

 

[shu09]

With regard to any other restrictions that remain, if everyone were to get vaccinated, the restrictions would go as well.

This is not true. There are still quarantine restrictions for international travelers who have taken the shot. There are still mask requirements for vaccinated people in certain regions.

 

[Hallsome]

Lol, no anger at all.

I have to laugh at this doomsday view of the collateral damage done to children by having to go remote. While that is certainly not something people want, you really think kids are going to be damged by this? The one year at home has made children just want to stay home and not talk to friends except on their phones and through video games. Oh wait, kids have been doing that for years now. The kids will be just fine.

Talk about politicizing things.

Maybe we should recap for the 1millionth tome efficacy (for protection) of masks particularly when worn by children. Or we can also recap that nobody here is an anti vaxer but those who want choice are labeled such
Wonder if anyone brings their young kids to, say, the Texas game, and then the next day has their kids sit in a classroom with (ineffective) mask wearing in place

 

[dehere23]

Maybe we should recap for the 1millionth tome efficacy (for protection) of masks particularly when worn by children. Or we can also recap that nobody here is an anti vaxer but those who want choice are labeled such
Wonder if anyone brings their young kids to, say, the Texas game, and then the next day has their kids sit in a classroom with (ineffective) mask wearing in place

You know that happens. Or that I have people in my town who support mask-wearing in schools but sign their kids up to play indoors sports without masks this winter. Explain to me the logic there? That’s the infuriating part.

I appreciate that Cern at least addressed the issue with our team and his views on that. We have a few of the biggest Pom-Pom boys on here that like to lecture about restrictions, vaccines etc but then don’t say $$$t when it comes to our players, which is absurd.

 

[Hallsome]

You know that happens. Or that I have people in my town who support mask-wearing in schools but sign their kids up to play indoors sports without masks this winter. Explain to me the logic there? That’s the infuriating part.

I appreciate that Cern at least addressed the issue with our team and his views on that. We have a few of the biggest Pom-Pom boys on here that like to lecture about restrictions, vaccines etc but then don’t say $$$t when it comes to our players, which is absurd.

Interesting never noticed the SH team takes….

 

[dehere23]

Interesting never noticed the SH team takes….

Most don’t want to talk about it. Especially some of the bigger proponents of the child mask wearing/restrictions that demonize the opposing viewpoint on that particular issue, yet are somehow OK rooting for their college team with unvaccinated kids. COVID is too big a risk in schools but not on the basketball court - at least that’s the “science”.

 

[sami]

Most don’t want to talk about it. Especially some of the bigger proponents of the child mask wearing/restrictions that demonize the opposing viewpoint on that particular issue, yet are somehow OK rooting for their college team with unvaccinated kids. COVID is too big a risk in schools but not on the basketball court - at least that’s the “science”.

Dumb question. Has it been verified that the kids on the team are invaded or assumed because the recency of their Covid? I thought SHU did not give a choice, that it was mandatory. Could the recent cases just be breakthroughs?

 

[dehere23]

Dumb question. Has it been verified that the kids on the team are invaded or assumed because the recency of their Covid? I thought SHU did not give a choice, that it was mandatory. Could the recent cases just be breakthroughs?

It was reported here we have unvaccinated players. At the outset of the season. Don’t know anything beyond that, and frankly don’t care about the reason. Don’t know how it evades school requirements, whether by some exception or work-around. What’s “dumb” is people who feel so strongly about something but are willing to sacrifice that for fanboy reasons.

 

[sami]

It was reported here we have unvaccinated players. At the outset of the season. Don’t know anything beyond that, and frankly don’t care about the reason. Don’t know how it evades school requirements, whether by some exception or work-around. What’s “dumb” is people who feel so strongly about something but are willing to sacrifice that for fanboy reasons.

I know it was reported here. But we’ve seen some of the quality of “facts” on message boards before. I just wonder if it’s true, not to argue it one way or another. Just wonder if there’s this hill people are fighting to take and it’s not even true that players are unvaccinated.

 

[dehere23]

I know it was reported here. But we’ve seen some of the quality of “facts” on message boards before. I just wonder if it’s true, not to argue it one way or another. Just wonder if there’s this hill people are fighting to take and it’s not even true that players are unvaccinated.

I take how often it has been raised, coupled with silence from the most connected supporters, and draw my own conclusion. Usually our most loyal fans - real loyalty, not the Pom-Pom wavers - make it a point to stay silent on certain topics of controversy that relate to specific players or are lightning rods. This is one of them.

 

[sami]

I take how often it has been raised, coupled with silence from the most connected supporters, and draw my own conclusion. Usually our most loyal fans - real loyalty, not the Pom-Pom wavers - make it a point to stay silent on certain topics of controversy that relate to specific players or are lightning rods. This is one of them.

So you don’t know for a fact.

You can keep replying like I’m arguing something, but it’s stupid. I’m genuinely curious if it’s a LOTS-established fact or if there really is any basis. You clearly don’t know, like me, which is perfectly fine. But by all means, tell me again about the hypocrisy of some posters.

 

[dehere23]

So you don’t know for a fact.

You can keep replying like I’m arguing something, but it’s stupid. I’m genuinely curious if it’s a LOTS-established fact or if there really is any basis. You clearly don’t know, like me, which is perfectly fine. But by all means, tell me again about the hypocrisy of some posters.

I don’t know for a fact. And I’m not arguing with you about that. But by all means, tell me again how it is stupid or dumb to address. Especially given the heightened level of topics and discussion that goes on here.

 

[shufan1993]

Most don’t want to talk about it. Especially some of the bigger proponents of the child mask wearing/restrictions that demonize the opposing viewpoint on that particular issue, yet are somehow OK rooting for their college team with unvaccinated kids. COVID is too big a risk in schools but not on the basketball court - at least that’s the “science”.

Dumb question. Has it been verified that the kids on the team are invaded or assumed because the recency of their Covid? I thought SHU did not give a choice, that it was mandatory. Could the recent cases just be breakthroughs?

@sami Zagoria reported back in October that Seton hall has several unvaccinated players. Did you miss this story? I cannot speak on if the players since then have gotten their jabs.

Some Seton Hall basketball players didn’t get COVID vaccine, but it might not matter

Vaccination policies in the Big East Conference vary from city to city, just like the NBA.

www.nj.com

 

[sami]

Well obviously I did because the whole damn back and forth was me asking a simple question. People just like to argue here.

I wasn’t coming from one side or the other. I wasn’t making a statement. I even admitted I didn’t know and asked a simple ****ing question.

 

[shufan1993]

Well obviously I did because the whole damn back and forth was me asking a simple question. People just like to argue here.

I wasn’t coming from one side or the other. I wasn’t making a statement. I even admitted I didn’t know and asked a simple ****ing question.

Ok have a nice day. Didn't know you were so angry. Strange.

 

[shufan1993]

 

[shu09]

Right on time for the 2022 midterm cycle. The liberal gospel has spoken. They know that continued obsession over this virus and restrictions will hand the Congress to the GOP in November. Most Americans want to move on.

 

[shufan1993]

Right on time for the 2022 midterm cycle. The liberal gospel has spoken. They know that continued obsession over this virus and restrictions will hand the Congress to the GOP in November. Most Americans want to move on.

Correct.

 

[Pirata]

I just received links of the recorded webinar from my OP.

Part 1:

Part 2

 

[Merge]

Suicides and drug overdoses caused by isolation are up.

Since that has been discussed here previously, and is something I have disagreed with based on the data I have seen, I looked up the county data.

Suicides were not really up in the county in 2020.

Coroner Statistics | Lancaster County, PA - Official Website

Coroner statistics as reported.

www.co.lancaster.pa.us

Suicides
2019 52
2020 54

View County Death Data – OverdoseFreePA

www.overdosefreepa.pitt.edu

Overdoses we’re up in 2020 but they were up all over the country, even in places with little to no Covid restrictions at all like Florida.

Florida overdose deaths skyrocketed in 2020

In 2020, Florida saw an almost 40 percent increase in overdose deaths.

www.wjhg.com

I get the theory that isolation would make things worse than they would otherwise be, but I don't think that theory is really supported by what happened.

 

[Merge]

Amazing. When challenged to share a legitimate source that would provide a basis for your inaccurate stance you play turtle.

I think what would be helpful on the debate here would be for 85 to provide something that says there is a long term risk related to mRNA delivery.

There may be, but I haven't seen any. So far what I have seen is the degradation is fairly rapid (which is also why they need such cold storage) and out of the body quickly. We have been researching mRNA for many years, so is there an actual study that suggests an unknown potential risk? Or is the argument that we can't possibly know anything without decades of data?

Also, the vaccines were fast tracked but that part is well behind us... but when comparing to previous FDA approvals which may have taken years, we should also add in the context that these vaccine trials were comparably massive with tens of thousands of participants. Many trials take longer because it is not as easy to get trial participants.

 

[HALL85]

Since that has been discussed here previously, and is something I have disagreed with based on the data I have seen, I looked up the county data.

Suicides were not really up in the county in 2020.

Coroner Statistics | Lancaster County, PA - Official Website

Coroner statistics as reported.

www.co.lancaster.pa.us

Suicides
2019 52
2020 54

View County Death Data – OverdoseFreePA

www.overdosefreepa.pitt.edu

Overdoses we’re up in 2020 but they were up all over the country, even in places with little to no Covid restrictions at all like Florida.

Florida overdose deaths skyrocketed in 2020

In 2020, Florida saw an almost 40 percent increase in overdose deaths.

www.wjhg.com

I get the theory that isolation would make things worse than they would otherwise be, but I don't think that theory is really supported by what happened.

Did you read the article I linked above from the LA Times? The Surgeon General has come out publicly on this issue. Comparing 2020 is a short term snapshot. I would be interested to see how 2021, 22, 23 look as mental health issues manifest over time.

 

[HALL85]

I think what would be helpful on the debate here would be for 85 to provide something that says there is a long term risk related to mRNA delivery.

There may be, but I haven't seen any. So far what I have seen is the degradation is fairly rapid (which is also why they need such cold storage) and out of the body quickly. We have been researching mRNA for many years, so is there an actual study that suggests an unknown potential risk? Or is the argument that we can't possibly know anything without decades of data?

Also, the vaccines were fast tracked but that part is well behind us... but when comparing to previous FDA approvals which may have taken years, we should also add in the context that these vaccine trials were comparably massive with tens of thousands of participants. Many trials take longer because it is not as easy to get trial participants.

You're asking me to provide something that doesn't exist. In the case of mRNA, we are using new technology to deliver the vaccine. So yes, the answer is we won't know of any long term effects until we have years of actual data on adverse events.

Up until, the only area mRNA has been used is in delivery of oncology drugs. So we've been researching it for years, but it's never been used in the delivery of any other drug? Why is that? Too expensive? Not as effective? Unknown long term effects?

The normal clinical trial process takes years because you need to find patients, AND you have to monitor them over time. Even though we have thousands of patients in the ongoing study, the time factor is still compressed.

 

[Merge]

Did you read the article I linked above from the LA Times? The Surgeon General has come out publicly on this issue. Comparing 2020 is a short term snapshot. I would be interested to see how 2021, 22, 23 look as mental health issues manifest over time.

I did, but we are not in a bubble where you can look at Covid only. Especially considering the fact you had talked about trends in isolated youth even before Covid because of technology. It's impossible to isolate the impact of Covid isolation specifically but you can compare data sets where we had Covid restrictions vs where we had no covid restrictions and to date I do not see a difference in results between areas with and without restrictions.

 

[Merge]

You're asking me to provide something that doesn't exist. In the case of mRNA, we are using new technology to deliver the vaccine. So yes, the answer is we won't know of any long term effects until we have years of actual data on adverse events.

But you seemed to refer to some specific concerns in this thread. Are there any, or is it really just that we need x amount of years? If so, how many?

 

[SHUSA]

I did, but we are not in a bubble where you can look at Covid only. Especially considering the fact you had talked about trends in isolated youth even before Covid because of technology. It's impossible to isolate the impact of Covid isolation specifically but you can compare data sets where we had Covid restrictions vs where we had no covid restrictions and to date I do not see a difference in results between areas with and without restrictions.

he tells people they cant prove things that he himself cant prove either. or even provide a direction for.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

he tells people they cant prove things that he himself cant prove either. or even provide a direction for.

Simmer down, hea an expert, no data required.

 

[SHUSA]

Simmer down, hes a self-proclaimed expert.

i believe he knows alot but he seems to be ignoring some reasonable points

 

[HALL85]

But you seemed to refer to some specific concerns in this thread. Are there any, or is it really just that we need x amount of years? If so, how many?

Concerns of any new drug delivery system. The trial system is set up this way for a reason. When you fast track it, you eliminate steps that were put in place for a reason.

 

[HALL85]

i believe he knows alot but he seems to be ignoring some reasonable points

Like what?

 

[HALL85]

I did, but we are not in a bubble where you can look at Covid only. Especially considering the fact you had talked about trends in isolated youth even before Covid because of technology. It's impossible to isolate the impact of Covid isolation specifically but you can compare data sets where we had Covid restrictions vs where we had no covid restrictions and to date I do not see a difference in results between areas with and without restrictions.

You’re trying to turn this into a red/blue state issue and not taking into account the policies and messaging on a national level. The Surgeon General is pretty clear on what he believes what is causing this mental health crisis in our youth (and resulting suicides, etc.). You don’t want to believe the Surgeon General, that’s fine. He’s just confirming what I was told earlier.

 

[Merge]

Concerns of any new drug delivery system. The trial system is set up this way for a reason. When you fast track it, you eliminate steps that were put in place for a reason.

Fast track process is there for a reason as well though.

But not sure why we are still talking about that as they are fully approved. The fast tracking part has been over for a while.

Assume the fast tracking did not take place and the vaccines were delayed by a year and just rolling out today. Are they now safe, or do you still want a decade of time here?

 

[HALL85]

Fast track process is there for a reason as well though.

But not sure why we are still talking about that as they are fully approved. The fast tracking part has been over for a while.

Assume the fast tracking did not take place and the vaccines were delayed by a year and just rolling out today. Are they now safe, or do you still want a decade of time here?

I never said we did the wrong thing by fast tracking. In fact I have said many times it was absolutely the right decision.I’m not sure the point you’re trying to make.

The vaccines are safe based on the information we have now. But what if there are a bunch of similar adverse events that start reporting in three years? This is rare, but it does happen. We have seen through this pandemic, that yhe science changes.

 

[Merge]

You’re trying to turn this into a red/blue state issue and not taking into account the policies and messaging on a national level. The Surgeon General is pretty clear on what he believes what is causing this mental health crisis in our youth (and resulting suicides, etc.). You don’t want to believe the Surgeon General, that’s fine. He’s just confirming what I was told earlier.

lol.. no... This is not red vs blue.
It is restriction vs. no restriction.

If you say isolation caused something, then that would be VERY apparent when comparing states with restrictions to states with no restrictions. It would be very easy to prove, but that is not what the data shows with suicides and drug overdoses.

It's not that I don't believe the surgeon general. It's that this is years in the making like you said back in 2019 when you attributed the increased depression and suicides to smart phone usage.

Reported HS depression and unhappiness gradually has increased since 1999 but has spiked dramatically since 2012. Students are hanging with friends less often, venturing out with parents less often.

What happened in 2012 was that smart phone use by teens took off dramatically. Her survey indicated 6-8 hours a day last year....Average first smart phone age is now 10 years old. Those are just some of the highlights or lowlights. Looking forward to reading the book, but it sure seems related to the high school violence, suicides and shootings that have been on the uptick.

Now you want to attribute the changes to Covid isolation and pretend like there haven't been trends occurring before it.

 

[Merge]

But what if there are a bunch of similar adverse events that start reporting in three years? This is rare, but it does happen. We have seen through this pandemic, that yhe science changes.

I guess that is the crux of this argument though.

You seem to be implying there is a potential risk here outside of the unknown "what if" scenarios.

Yes, but no data on whether some of the suggested long term effects that are being suggested.

Emphasis added. What are the long term effects that are "being suggested"?

 

[HALL85]

lol.. no... This is not red vs blue.
It is restriction vs. no restriction.

If you say isolation caused something, then that would be VERY apparent when comparing states with restrictions to states with no restrictions. It would be very easy to prove, but that is not what the data shows with suicides and drug overdoses.

It's not that I don't believe the surgeon general. It's that this is years in the making like you said back in 2019 when you attributed the increased depression and suicides to smart phone usage.



Now you want to attribute the changes to Covid isolation and pretend like there haven't been trends occurring before it.

There is no such thing as “restriction” or “no restriction”….more importantly it was the messaging nationally to isolate, stay at home, etc. Once again, I defer to the Surgeon General as he’s not making it a red/blue issue.