Covid Deaths in PA

[Merge]

There is no such thing as “restriction” or “no restriction”….more importantly it was the messaging nationally to isolate, stay at home, etc. Once again, I defer to the Surgeon General as he’s not making it a red/blue issue.

National messaging? LOL!
Yeah all of those people who overdosed in Florida did so because of the "national messaging" What a load...

You can defer to whoever you would like. Mental health among teens is an important issue and I am glad they are calling it out but the data doesn't show a correlation of covid isolation / restrictions and suicides and drug overdoses. It shows continuing trends that started before the pandemic that impacted most of the country.

 

[HALL85]

National messaging? LOL!
Yeah all of those people who overdosed in Florida did so because of the "national messaging" What a load...

You can defer to whoever you would like. Mental health among teens is an important issue and I am glad they are calling it out but the data doesn't show a correlation of covid isolation / restrictions and suicides and drug overdoses. It shows continuing trends that started before the pandemic that impacted most of the country.

So according to you the Surgeon General is full of shit. Got it.

 

[Merge]

So according to you the Surgeon General is full of shit. Got it.

Not really. I think adolescents mental health issues are important and navigating life during a global pandemic could make life more challenging for kids.

What I don't agree with is when you try to tie the mental health implications only to government action of lockdowns.

 

[HALL85]

Not really. I think adolescents mental health issues are important and navigating life during a global pandemic could make life more challenging for kids.

What I don't agree with is when you try to tie the mental health implications only to government action of lockdowns.

I never said it was “only government actions”, so don’t try putting words in my mouth. But it’s obvious that many of the policies and messages that forced or recommended people to isolate would have a downstream negative effect on mental health. Many experts predicted that and the SG believes that as well.

 

[Merge]

I never said it was “only government actions”, so don’t try putting words in my mouth. But it’s obvious that many of the policies and messages that forced or recommended people to isolate would have a downstream negative effect on mental health.

Of course you did.

My point is as we make some of these decisions on lockdowns and restricting freedoms that we also need to consider the unintended consequences and deaths that occur because of some of those decisions that are not from COVID itself.

Those are your words and it has been your theme.

Looking back though, the theory that government imposed restrictions would increase suicide rates does not seem to be accurate.

 

[HALL85]

Of course you did.




Those are your words and it has been your theme.

Looking back though, the theory that government imposed restrictions would increase suicide rates does not seem to be accurate.

Lol….now it’s my “theme”. I still stand by that statement. I have been consistent on this through hundreds of posts. Telling people that they need to isolate and restrict their movements can and will have negative consequences.
And here we are now and the surgeon general agrees.

 

[Merge]

Telling people that they need to isolate and restrict their movements can and will have negative consequences.

Sure, and those consequences would be weighed against a virus spreading during a global pandemic. But you were specific about the restrictions leading to increased suicides which did not play out that way, which is why you are now modifying your argument to the "messaging".

Because as we all know... Kids love to listen to the government messaging! That's what is impacting their day to day lives.

 

[shu09]

Merge loves the phrase "global pandemic." Makes it sound more threatening.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Merge loves the phrase "global pandemic." Makes it sound more threatening.

What do you propose he calls the global pandemic?

 

[Merge]

Merge loves the phrase "global pandemic." Makes it sound more threatening.

I wouldn't say I "love" the phrase, not sure what else you want me to call it.
If calling something by its name sounds threatening, maybe it is because it was a threat?

I guess I could have just said a virus that has killed 800,000+ Americans and 5,300,000+ around the world? Sound better?

 

[HALL85]

Sure, and those consequences would be weighed against a virus spreading during a global pandemic. But you were specific about the restrictions leading to increased suicides which did not play out that way, which is why you are now modifying your argument to the "messaging".

Because as we all know... Kids love to listen to the government messaging! That's what is impacting their day to day lives.

Why do you keep ignoring with the surgeon general has said?? You always ask for sources and here I have provided one from the top health administration official.

You love to parse words and ignore other points. For instance, mental health damage as I have said on numerous times (supported by experts and now the SG) needs to be measured over time.

 

[Merge]

Why do you keep ignoring with the surgeon general has said?? You always ask for sources and here I have provided one from the top health administration official.

You love to parse words and ignore other points. For instance, mental health damage as I have said on numerous times (supported by experts and now the SG) needs to be measured over time.

So what you started replying to here was my question related to OP that stated
"Suicides and drug overdoses caused by isolation are up."

Not may be up over time, but ARE up caused by isolation.
He was specifically referring to one county where that does not appear to be correct.

Obviously, we have had this argument in the past so you're going back to hedging to a future point in time because you can't possibly be wrong.

Here is a post from you stating the number of suicides in the US IS daunting a year ago. What year were you referring to here?

Unintended consequences of lockdowns/isolating ....the estimate of suicides for the US is daunting.

Not "will be daunting years from now"... You were saying that the lockdowns caused an increase in suicides in 2020. Except that is not what the actual data shows.

You've now modified that argument to the messaging instead of the lockdowns and added that it is a future point in time instead of being able to see it sooner.

 

[shu09]

I wouldn't say I "love" the phrase, not sure what else you want me to call it.
If calling something by its name sounds threatening, maybe it is because it was a threat?

I guess I could have just said a virus that has killed 800,000+ Americans and 5,300,000+ around the world? Sound better?

800,000 over almost two years now. Another big scary number that really isn't.

 

[knowknow456]

Acceptable is different, given the situation that we face because of China's recklessness. This is a war, the politicians say. Well, wars have casualties. I would say something under 100,000 would be acceptable. We will come in well under that according to most models. 100,000 is 0.03% of the US population.

100,000 x 8 = 800,000

 

[Merge]

800,000 over almost two years now. Another big scary number that really isn't.

Just looking for your preferred name.
"Virus that has killed 820,000+ Americans and 5,300,000+ worldwide, over two years"

That work for you?

 

[HALL85]

So what you started replying to here was my question related to OP that stated
"Suicides and drug overdoses caused by isolation are up."

Not may be up over time, but ARE up caused by isolation.
He was specifically referring to one county where that does not appear to be correct.

Obviously, we have had this argument in the past so you're going back to hedging to a future point in time because you can't possibly be wrong.

Here is a post from you stating the number of suicides in the US IS daunting a year ago. What year were you referring to here?



Not "will be daunting years from now"... You were saying that the lockdowns caused an increase in suicides in 2020. Except that is not what the actual data shows.

You've now modified that argument to the messaging instead of the lockdowns and added that it is a future point in time instead of being able to see it sooner.

I guess I will have to be careful from now on and be very very specific with my statements since you like to analyze everything I write in an uber-precise fashion.

i’ll make it easy for you. I completely support the surgeon generals position. He did refer to the increase in suicides, didn’t he?

 

[Pirata]

Since that has been discussed here previously, and is something I have disagreed with based on the data I have seen, I looked up the county data.

Suicides were not really up in the county in 2020.

Coroner Statistics | Lancaster County, PA - Official Website

Coroner statistics as reported.

www.co.lancaster.pa.us

Suicides
2019 52
2020 54

View County Death Data – OverdoseFreePA

www.overdosefreepa.pitt.edu

Overdoses we’re up in 2020 but they were up all over the country, even in places with little to no Covid restrictions at all like Florida.

Florida overdose deaths skyrocketed in 2020

In 2020, Florida saw an almost 40 percent increase in overdose deaths.

www.wjhg.com

I get the theory that isolation would make things worse than they would otherwise be, but I don't think that theory is really supported by what happened.

For some reason you left out 2021.

61 suicides and that is a year-to-date number not a full year.

Normalized for the full year that's a 17% increase over 2019.

 

[Merge]

I guess I will have to be careful from now on and be very very specific with my statements since you like to analyze everything I write in an uber-precise fashion.

i’ll make it easy for you. I completely support the surgeon generals position. He did refer to the increase in suicides, didn’t he?

You didn’t read his report.

“Although the pandemic’s long-term impact on children and young people is not fully understood, there is some cause for optimism. According to more than 50 years of research, increases in distress symptoms are common during disasters, but most people cope well and do not go on to develop mental health disorders. Several measures of distress that increased early in the pandemic appear to have returned to pre-pandemic levels by mid-2020. Some other measures of wellbeing, such as rates of life satisfaction and loneliness, remained largely unchanged throughout the first year of the pandemic. And while data on youth suicide rates are limited, early evidence does not show significant increases.”

 

[Merge]

For some reason you left out 2021.

61 suicides and that is a year-to-date number not a full year.

Normalized for the full year that's a 17% increase over 2019.

Yes. I did leave out 2021 in the context of lockdowns and isolation because there really weren’t many at all this year.

 

[HALL85]

Yes. I did leave out 2021 in the context of lockdowns and isolation because there really weren’t many at all this year.

Because you keep ignoring that mental health issues manifest themselves over longer periods of time.

 

[Merge]

Because you keep ignoring that mental health issues manifest themselves over longer periods of time.

Surgeon general says he’s not concerned about that as noted above... I guess you only defer to him when you agree with him?

 

[donnie_baseball]

mRNA technology has never been used as a delivery system for a vaccine. The long term impact of how it may manifest itself or not will not be known for years.

True, but all components of the injection are broken down and out in something like 3-5 days.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Thank you for posting Open Payments. It reveals that Paul Goepfert took $114,000 in 2017 from, you guessed it, Pfizer. Maybe he's a bit biased because of that?

You don't bite the hand that feeds you. That said, most of us are lucky to get a couple of fast food lunches dropped off once or twice a quarter.

 

[HALL85]

Surgeon general says he’s not concerned about that as noted above... I guess you only defer to him when you agree with him?

The gist of the article is that he issued an advisory to address the issue. It’s there in black and white.

 

[Merge]

The gist of the article is that he issued an advisory to address the issue. It’s there in black and white.

Read the actual report.
It’s actually right there in black and white without the editorializing.

“According to more than 50 years of research, increases in distress symptoms are common during disasters, but most people cope well and do not go on to develop mental health disorders. Several measures of distress that increased early in the pandemic appear to have returned to pre-pandemic levels by mid-2020.”

 

[HALL85]

Read the actual report.
It’s actually right there in black and white without the editorializing.

“According to more than 50 years of research, increases in distress symptoms are common during disasters, but most people cope well and do not go on to develop mental health disorders. Several measures of distress that increased early in the pandemic appear to have returned to pre-pandemic levels by mid-2020.”

You picked one excerpt of a 53 page report and keep ignoring his actual recommendation!

You are trying to be argumentative using a piece of minutiae when he is sounding an official alert.

 

[Merge]

You picked one excerpt of a 53 page report and keep ignoring his actual recommendation!

You are trying to be argumentative using a piece of minutiae when he is sounding an official alert.

Lol. No. I only cited the part that directly refutes your point.

I just don’t agree with your premise tying anything to pandemic related isolation. It’s been a decade+ in the making of social change driven by smartphones and technology... something you have previously talked about here years ago.

 

[HALL85]

Lol. No. I only cited the part that directly refutes your point.

I just don’t agree with your premise tying anything to pandemic related isolation. It’s been a decade+ in the making of social change driven by smartphones and technology... something you have previously talked about here years ago.

Well it’s pretty clear in the article that the Surgeon General agrees with me which is why he issued the health advisory. You can disagree with him, me or other mental health professionals but that doesn’t make you right.

 

[Pirata]

You quoted me:

Pirata said:
Suicides and drug overdoses caused by isolation are up.

I did not say that. The Coroner did. I recapped hi stalked and then posted a complete video of his talk so you could hear it for yourself. I am not supporting or detracting from his views or comments. I merely relayed that I went to lunch and learn and thought others might lie to hear it.

Then you posted:

I looked up the county data.

Suicides were not really up in the county in 2020.

Then I cited the Lancaster County data that you posted which shows in black and white that suicides are up 17% in 2021 over 2019.

https://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/DocumentCenter/View/13439/Website-Statistics-2021-Thru-November

Are you going to double down on, "Suicides were not really up in the county in 2020."?

Merge, you are a man of data. Why are you ignoring the very data you posted?

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

True, but all components of the injection are broken down and out in something like 3-5 days.

Thank you for sharing. That backs up everything I've been telling @HALL85

 

[Merge]

You quoted me:

Pirata said:
Suicides and drug overdoses caused by isolation are up.

I did not say that. The Coroner did. I recapped hi stalked and then posted a complete video of his talk so you could hear it for yourself. I am not supporting or detracting from his views or comments. I merely relayed that I went to lunch and learn and thought others might lie to hear it.

Then you posted:


Then I cited the Lancaster County data that you posted which shows in black and white that suicides are up 17% in 2021 over 2019.

https://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/DocumentCenter/View/13439/Website-Statistics-2021-Thru-November

Are you going to double down on, "Suicides were not really up in the county in 2020."?

Merge, you are a man of data. Why are you ignoring the very data you posted?

Yes. They weren’t up in 2020. I don’t really agree with the premise that 2021 suicides have much to do with isolation in early 2020… and like I said, if it were true then states with the most restrictions should have larger increases than states with no restrictions but that’s not what happened. It’s a hypothetical based on an expectation that Covid measures might make things worse, but I do not see a correlation with restrictions and suicides or overdoses.

In Lancaster in 2020, the most suicides in one month occurred in February before Covid was even here.

 

[HALL85]

Thank you for sharing. That backs up everything I've been telling @HALL85

It still has nothing to do with what I’ve been posting about.

 

[HALL85]

Yes. They weren’t up in 2020. I don’t really agree with the premise that 2021 suicides have much to do with isolation in early 2020… and like I said, if it were true then states with the most restrictions should have larger increases than states with no restrictions but that’s not what happened. It’s a hypothetical based on an expectation that Covid measures might make things worse, but I do not see a correlation with restrictions and suicides or overdoses.

In Lancaster in 2020, the most suicides in one month occurred in February before Covid was even here.

So now you disagree with the Surgeon General, Lancaster County Coroner and other mental health experts. Too funny.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

It still has nothing to do with what I’ve been posting about.

It has everything to do with long-term effects occurring.

 

[shu09]

Just looking for your preferred name.
"Virus that has killed 820,000+ Americans and 5,300,000+ worldwide, over two years"

That work for you?

It's a bad flu.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

It's a bad flu.

The correct term is pandemic.

 

[Merge]

So now you disagree with the Surgeon General, Lancaster County Coroner and other mental health experts. Too funny.

I’m on the same page as the surgeon general. You used to be as well. You saw a problem and it was getting worse when you listened to the author of I-gen. I even agree with your take back then. Really wasn’t that long ago.

Now you act like it hasn’t been trending that way for a decade and want to blame everything on politicians instead.

 

[shu09]

It still has nothing to do with what I’ve been posting about.

Exactly. Doesn't mean there can't be long term effects.

 

[shu09]

The correct term is pandemic.

Semantics. The pandemic phase is over. Move on.

 

[Merge]

It's a bad flu.

Yes, exactly.
Some would even say like a pandemic flu.

Seasonal Flu vs. Pandemic Flu

Influenza is one of the world's greatest infectious disease challenges. But did you know that seasonal flu and pandemic flu are not the same?

www.cdc.gov